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Dane B

Forest v Blackburn

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3 minutes ago, Ricknffc said:

I don't think he is interested in putting out the strongest 11 tbh pal. I think everything he is doing now is preparing and finding out information for the summer while still putting a relative team out and hopefully picking up 1 or 2 wins between now and end of season

He won't even reach the summer unless he improves results though.  

When the crowd turn on you on the back of poor results and poor play you're in trouble, especially with a trigger happy owner.  

He needs to sort it out and fast.  

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39 minutes ago, brooksy said:

i shudder to think who he would bring in given a transfer window

We were in a strong position when he came in, we have a good squad. He's tactics, team selection have took us back probably 18 months already 

it will be a disaster if he stays on to next season 

If he stays it seems the owner thinks there is a good reason for him staying. I do think he has the ability to get our shit together in the summer but it will take a lot of work. I agree he hasnt shown us anything yet since he came in to fill us with any confidence. I'm just living in hope

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1 hour ago, E R said:

 

its always bollocks when great players come back to manage the club the same with psycho as you end up turning on them and I just do not want next season with MON in charge 

Look on the bright side we’ve pretty much burned through all the club legends in management. 

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MON staring up at the A block immediately after the couple of times Carvalho lost the ball when he came on (after the fans were singing his name to be brought on). 

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Yes there have been flashes of very good ability from carvalho and yes he has weighed in with a handful of assists and a couple of goals but its a bit cringy all the fans singing his name for him to come on. He hasn't exactly set the world alight and when he has come on other than the goal v hull was it? He hasn't done a great deal. Obviously he can't be a miracle worker when coming off the bench and I'm all for giving him more game time but singing his name every game just looks desperate. It's not like we have Messi on the bench and not using him and I'm sure there is a reason Mon isn't starting him.

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9 hours ago, Ricknffc said:

Yes there have been flashes of very good ability from carvalho and yes he has weighed in with a handful of assists and a couple of goals but its a bit cringy all the fans singing his name for him to come on. He hasn't exactly set the world alight and when he has come on other than the goal v hull was it? He hasn't done a great deal. Obviously he can't be a miracle worker when coming off the bench and I'm all for giving him more game time but singing his name every game just looks desperate. It's not like we have Messi on the bench and not using him and I'm sure there is a reason Mon isn't starting him.

He's our best player by a country mile. Playing two defensive mids against a team who hadn't won an away game in 5 is criminal in my eyes. One of them needed to be sacrificed and Carvalho needed to play.

He makes things happen - he might not like a tackle but his touch and vision gives us more threat going forward. We looked like scoring in the 2nd half, something we failed to do in the 1st. 

I'll be angry if we lose him in the summer as he will go on to be a great player. I'd like to at least see him earn a big money move away rather than slink off quietly.

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Totally agree. What worries me is the type of player MON can attract compared to Karanka. We shall have to see. 

Other than Lolley, Carvalho, Appiah, Yates(give them both a chance to develop), Robinson, Byram, Colback, Figuerido, I would happily move the rest of the squad on. 

 

 

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I would say that Lolley is our best player at the moment and has been all season. I would be much more concerned in losing Lolley than carvalho in this moment in time. I'm not saying he shouldn't start and I'm not saying he couldn't offer us something but I don't class him as our saviour. None of our players have enough to take the game by the scruff of the neck and command it. If anyone would do that it's Lolley. I think Lolley on the bench would be a much worse scenario

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And yes I agree 2 central defensive midfielders is a system we seem to have been plagued with this season. I hope he can find an attacking solution in the summer and get this team ticking. All I can say is we don't know what happens behind the scenes. There must be a reason for carvalho not playing. You wouldn't leave best players out deliberately u less for a good reason surely. People saying surely Mon can see carvalho is technically very good. Yes everyone can see that and I'm sure the staff, players, board had all informed Mon of the 'good players' when he arrived. My guess is something to do with his attitude, maybe he's not giving 2 shits in training, maybe he has spat his dummy out over something.. we don't know. But if I had to put money on it I would guess it's a reason like that over Mon thinking he's shit. He said he wants to get the mentality right at the club that suggests to me that some people aren't showing the correct attitude or mentality so what do you do? Start them regardless, say carvalho isn't arsed in training do you reward that behaviour and just put his name on the team sheet anyway? Or do you prove a point that everyone needs to be pulling in the right direction and select players that want to give it their all or at least look like they are going to?

 

When Mon hears the shouts for carvalho from the stands I bet he wants to say ' of course I want to play him but if only you knew the real story'

I think if we are all honest we aren't a play off side, we aren't strong enough for the play offs and we shouldn't be too disappointed about not making them. If we can't win back to back games we are an average team. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't have complained if we got in but if we did get in then we would have been good enough to warrant a place therefore our team would be further along the stages of development. I would much rather we prepare and plan for next year now and go again.

 

I never wanted karanka out and I'm not going to start saying O'Neil out. At some stage with one of these managers we have to believe that despite the shit starts they have after 3/4 months they can have some time to turn it around and I think having the summer to do a lot of that work is ideal.

Edited by Ricknffc

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I'd say you're searching for excuses there Rick.  Nothing about Carvalho or his demeanour says he has a bad attitude.  When he plays, in an attacking sense he makes us tick.  Every other attacking player we have looks better when he's on the pitch cause he gives us an extra dimension.

The fact that pretty much everyone sees it apart from O'Neill is the kind of thing which will mean he'll be gone by the summer.  

You might get away with this bollocks if you're playing well and winning but when you're on a run - both in form and style - that we're on, no fucking way.

It's criminal at this stage that he's still being frozen out.  The same goes for Guedioura and Yacob.  

Ps, we were strong enough for the play offs before O'Neill came.

Edited by Charlie Cheswick

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We've become over-reliant on Lolley to dig us out of a hole. Teams have worked that out and it's no surprise that he's become less effective as the season's progressed.

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Just now, molymoly said:

We've become over-reliant on Lolley to dig us out of a hole. Teams have worked that out and it's no surprise that he's become less effective as the season's progressed.

Imagine if we had a player on the pitch who bought his team mates into the game instead of everyone on the pitch looking to pick Lolley out every time?

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1 minute ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

Imagine if we had a player on the pitch who bought his team mates into the game instead of everyone on the pitch looking to pick Lolley out every time?

Mate, you sound exactly like me at the game yesterday.  You had Pele giving the ball away every third pass, creating chaos in our defence while we appeared to be defending a 1 nil deficit. 

We had nothing to lose. Take the fucking handbrake off and go for it.

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1 hour ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

I'd say you're searching for excuses there Rick.  Nothing about Carvalho or his demeanour says he has a bad attitude.  When he plays, in an attacking sense he makes us tick.  Every other attacking player we have looks better when he's on the pitch cause he gives us an extra dimension.

The fact that pretty much everyone sees it apart from O'Neill is the kind of thing which will mean he'll be gone by the summer.  

You might get away with this bollocks if you're playing well and winning but when you're on a run - both in form and style - that we're on, no fucking way.

It's criminal at this stage that he's still being frozen out.  The same goes for Guedioura and Yacob.  

Ps, we were strong enough for the play offs before O'Neill came.

Chaz we are only as strong for the play offs if we end up in them after 46 games. You saying we were strong enough for the play offs when we let Norwich come back from 3-0 down to draw with us I would question whether we were ever strong enough for top 6 this season tbh. I think we would have had a better chance with karanka for sure but whether we would have gone the distance this season with him and made the play offs I'm not sure.

 

I'm not searching for excuses I'm coming up with possible reasons why he isn't starting because in my opinion I don't think it's because Mon doesn't rate him as everyone can see he has quality so I'm sure the manager would be able to see that. No maybe his demeanour on the pitch when he is playing doesn't suggest that but turning up and playing on a match day for 90 mins is arguably a minority percentage of what being a footballer is all about. I totally agree about every other player looking more dangerous when he is on the pitch and also agree on the fact Lolley has a burden on his shoulders of pulling us out the shit constantly. I can't see the identity that O'Neill is bringing yet and I can't work out what his style of play is, I have criticised the fact that we don't look like we have a way of getting goals at the moment. 

 

What I am saying though is if he is here through the summer ( completely out of our hands) I think he will benefit from the summer to get his shit together and we go again.

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The way I see it is like this. If we keep MON and his dirty bastard sidekick, we will defo go down next season, and we'll have a squad devoid of quality and skill, just a bunch of muscle men putting it about.

I just cannot believe that EM hasn't seen enough already for him not to relieve MON of his duties in the Summer, and have a QUALITY replacement lined up. I'm dreading next season with this current management team.

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54 minutes ago, Ricknffc said:

 I can't work out what his style of play is.

Neither can the players, which is why they've all given up on MON.

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Why give MON a summer to sort it out. Karanka was a one trick pony but still got him better results. Besides look what happened when Villa replaced Steve Bruce. That’s what impact I would have expected for us instead of going backwards.

I totally agree in giving the right manager time but out of our last 6 managers there is nothing positive to take since Mon and Keane’s arrival. I’d rather go back to Warburton’s ‘we’re shit but we’re building for the future’ philosophy. 

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3 hours ago, Ricknffc said:

Chaz we are only as strong for the play offs if we end up in them after 46 games. You saying we were strong enough for the play offs when we let Norwich come back from 3-0 down to draw with us I would question whether we were ever strong enough for top 6 this season tbh. I think we would have had a better chance with karanka for sure but whether we would have gone the distance this season with him and made the play offs I'm not sure.

 

I'm not searching for excuses I'm coming up with possible reasons why he isn't starting because in my opinion I don't think it's because Mon doesn't rate him as everyone can see he has quality so I'm sure the manager would be able to see that. No maybe his demeanour on the pitch when he is playing doesn't suggest that but turning up and playing on a match day for 90 mins is arguably a minority percentage of what being a footballer is all about. I totally agree about every other player looking more dangerous when he is on the pitch and also agree on the fact Lolley has a burden on his shoulders of pulling us out the shit constantly. I can't see the identity that O'Neill is bringing yet and I can't work out what his style of play is, I have criticised the fact that we don't look like we have a way of getting goals at the moment. 

 

What I am saying though is if he is here through the summer ( completely out of our hands) I think he will benefit from the summer to get his shit together and we go again.

 

Norwich were top and battering everyone Rick, we went three goals up against them away from home and they only got a draw because the ref played 12 minutes added time.  Hardly fair to line that game up - as many did at the time - as a stick to beat a manager with.

I'd like to think you're right but I can't have any faith in a manager who's been here for this long, has sidelined three of his best players, has produced woeful football and results to match it.  

I hope I'm proved wrong but so far it's been shit on every front since he came in.

 

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3 hours ago, bryan said:

Why give MON a summer to sort it out. Karanka was a one trick pony but still got him better results. Besides look what happened when Villa replaced Steve Bruce. That’s what impact I would have expected for us instead of going backwards.

I totally agree in giving the right manager time but out of our last 6 managers there is nothing positive to take since Mon and Keane’s arrival. I’d rather go back to Warburton’s ‘we’re shit but we’re building for the future’ philosophy. 

Are we saying though that the only chance of someone being 'the right' manager is if he gets off to a good start straight away and pushes us on from the off doing better than the previous manager? How do you know if he's the right manager until you give a reasonable amount of time to them? I'm not saying he is the right manager, I agree that everything so far on the field hasn't filled anyone with positivity but if a manger gets off to a horrible start does that mean they are the wrong man straight away?

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1 hour ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

 

Norwich were top and battering everyone Rick, we went three goals up against them away from home and they only got a draw because the ref played 12 minutes added time.  Hardly fair to line that game up - as many did at the time - as a stick to beat a manager with.

I'd like to think you're right but I can't have any faith in a manager who's been here for this long, has sidelined three of his best players, has produced woeful football and results to match it.  

I hope I'm proved wrong but so far it's been shit on every front since he came in.

 

I liked karanka, he brought unity and the fans seemed to appreciate and get behind him. The thing I liked especially about karanka was the fact that when you went away with the team you could stand there and feel like they were going to give it a real go and take it to teams away from home. We haven't had that at all from O'Neill yet at home or away but to be a successful team you have to have that and I'm sure Mon knows that otherwise why would you be in the job, hopefully this changes in the summer he has stressed about mentality and not being brittle or fragile. I hope he can bring this to the team. He has work to do

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That`s 5 wins, 3 draws and 8 defeats since Karanka left on Jan 11th. O`Neill was a daft appointment and I`ve had it with these so-called "name" managers like O`Neill and Karanka, whose best days in management are well behind them. We have a talented group of players at this club but their confidence and self-belief is on the floor. 

 

There are loads of good young managers right across Europe and a couple in the lower divisions of the EFL. I`d look to Northern Europe if I was Marinakis, to places like Germany and Sweden. We need a young manager on the way up, whose best years in management are still ahead of them. Marinakis should cut his losses and plan ahead for the new season before O`Neill does any further damage.   

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1 hour ago, Mr Trent said:

That`s 5 wins, 3 draws and 8 defeats since Karanka left on Jan 11th. O`Neill was a daft appointment and I`ve had it with these so-called "name" managers like O`Neill and Karanka, whose best days in management are well behind them. We have a talented group of players at this club but their confidence and self-belief is on the floor. 

 

There are loads of good young managers right across Europe and a couple in the lower divisions of the EFL. I`d look to Northern Europe if I was Marinakis, to places like Germany and Sweden. We need a young manager on the way up, whose best years in management are still ahead of them. Marinakis should cut his losses and plan ahead for the new season before O`Neill does any further damage.   

We were Karanka's 2nd job, in his last one he took one and a half seasons to get promotion.  He was the perfect manager to us until the owners spent six weeks ousting him before he fucked off.  

Sorry there, you set my bullshit detector off.

Despite that you have a point and I'd go with Jokanovic or Wagner given a choice.  Fellas who've shown they know how to get out of this league.  Unlike with Karanka, they need time to get the job done.

Edited by Charlie Cheswick

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14 hours ago, Ricknffc said:

Are we saying though that the only chance of someone being 'the right' manager is if he gets off to a good start straight away and pushes us on from the off doing better than the previous manager? 

No.

But there needs to be some sign of what the manager is trying to do to improve us, some sign that the players are buying into what he is trying to do, and some sign, that given time, he'll get it right.

There is absolutely nothing about MON's chaotic team selections, mind numbing tactics, and poor man management, to suggest any of the above are likely to happen.

A blind man can see that MON is the wrong choice.

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6 hours ago, Dane B said:

No.

But there needs to be some sign of what the manager is trying to do to improve us, some sign that the players are buying into what he is trying to do, and some sign, that given time, he'll get it right.

There is absolutely nothing about MON's chaotic team selections, mind numbing tactics, and poor man management, to suggest any of the above are likely to happen.

A blind man can see that MON is the wrong choice.

We had that with warburton, a long term project, a vision, look what happened to him

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28 minutes ago, Ricknffc said:

We had that with warburton, a long term project, a vision, look what happened to him

 

A long term thing is good but it has to be the right man.  AK fitted the bill. Another youngish manager who has shown they know how to get out of the division would be fine, the fellas who got Fulham and Huddersfield up would be good choices.  

Basically any managers who don't play their reserve midfield because they can't get on with their first team midfield.  

Edited by Charlie Cheswick

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