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Match thread : Nottingham Forest v Sheffield United

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Equally there are certain fans who make excuses for the teams performances all the time. I notice everyone conveniently ignored Norwich and Sheff Utd. 

1 hour ago, Danny said:

Maybe this summer but for the previous few years they’ve spent big money building their squad. The likes of Davies, Johnson, Ince, Carson etc won’t be on pennies either. It’s only because of their lavishness in recent years that they had to tighten their belt this summer. 

Ince has left mate and they won’t be on anymore than the likes of Dawson, Murphy, Pantilimon, Colbeck or Grabban maybe even Hefele 

Sorry whilst I admire the defensive performances against Leeds and Sheff Utd it doesn’t detract that in both games home and away we conceded possession and at home we managed 2 shots on target in 90 minutes 

People talk like it is a transitional period but the stats for Boro proves they had the least amount of shots in the whole league when Karanka was there so it is not as if he has decided to sort the defence out and then concentrate on the attacking side of things - this is it for as long as he is here

7 or 8 defenders and hope you get a goal. You could see against Burton he had no idea of how to attack when we went behind and his soloution was to chuck a 17 year old kid on for his debut 

Edited by E R

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32 minutes ago, E R said:

Ince has left mate and they won’t be on anymore than the likes of Dawson, Murphy, Pantilimon, Colbeck or Grabban maybe even Hefele 

I don’t doubt that you’re right but I was just pointing out that up until this year Derby have spent a load more than we have.

In regards to the main point, the football is absolutely dull as fuck for the most part with the odd flash of inspiration. You can read that two ways I think; this is as good as it’ll get under Karanka as our style, if you can use that word, aligns with the one he previously used whilst managing Boro. Alternatively the team are yet to properly hit their straps and we have had a fairly tricky run of fixtures where we have played a lot of the better sides in this division. 

As of yet I’m not sure where I sit with it although I probably lean more to the former. If that’s the case then I can put up with it whilst we’re picking up points. I do expect our giant squad to show its worth over the festive period though and our greater fitness should mean we begin putting a few sides to the sword. 

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59 minutes ago, Inca said:

Never a truer word spoken.

Even when we were winning leagues, European champions, League cups and so on. Forest fans were still not happy.

Forest fans are fickle. Fact.

 

What I've always found strange is the unhappiness appears to rise the better we do.  Maybe people don't cope well with the possibility of disappointment.

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1 hour ago, E R said:

Equally there are certain fans who make excuses for the teams performances all the time. I notice everyone conveniently ignored Norwich and Sheff Utd. 

Ince has left mate and they won’t be on anymore than the likes of Dawson, Murphy, Pantilimon, Colbeck or Grabban maybe even Hefele 

Sorry whilst I admire the defensive performances against Leeds and Sheff Utd it doesn’t detract that in both games home and away we conceded possession and at home we managed 2 shots on target in 90 minutes 

People talk like it is a transitional period but the stats for Boro proves they had the least amount of shots in the whole league when Karanka was there so it is not as if he has decided to sort the defence out and then concentrate on the attacking side of things - this is it for as long as he is here

7 or 8 defenders and hope you get a goal. You could see against Burton he had no idea of how to attack when we went behind and his soloution was to chuck a 17 year old kid on for his debut 

Jamie , would you be happier were we to play a much more expansive game but pick up much less points  ?. The old saying that Points make Prizes was never more true than in the Championship this season . It's never been so competitive as it is today . 

We are playing at home in front of an average of over 27,000 each game and the atmosphere on Saturday was vibrant .  So , the football cannot be as dull and boring as you maintain . Forget what happened with Karanka and Boro that's irrelevant to us . Just consider he's assembled a new squad of players and it takes time for them to blend .. Meantime we are getting decent results.  Maybe the Shaggers are playing in a more exciting manner but it's where WE finish at the seasons end that he'll be judged on ...

Since Marinakis bought the club it's been on an upward curve and there's a feel good factor we've not experienced in years .. Chill out mate it's not as bad as you think ... 

 

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Our local lot played Salford city, who were top. They don't have an out & out striker, yet they managed 12-13 shots on target Saturday & were unlucky to concede in the last minute. That, combined with an end to end thrilling 1-1 against then top Orient goes to show that you can entertain without shipping loads of goals. All for £4 a game, 3 divisions below Forest. 

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I think the point is that against a top 6 six team I can completely understand grinding it out and not playing champagne football. The issue is when we play the teams at the bottom or even sometimes in a lower league we still play exactly the same. 

Only against Bolton this season could we really say we've dominated a game for its entirety and even then I question whether it was due to us being good or them being terrible...

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2 hours ago, colin said:

Jamie , would you be happier were we to play a much more expansive game but pick up much less points  ?. The old saying that Points make Prizes was never more true than in the Championship this season . It's never been so competitive as it is today . 

We are playing at home in front of an average of over 27,000 each game and the atmosphere on Saturday was vibrant .  So , the football cannot be as dull and boring as you maintain . Forget what happened with Karanka and Boro that's irrelevant to us . Just consider he's assembled a new squad of players and it takes time for them to blend .. Meantime we are getting decent results.  Maybe the Shaggers are playing in a more exciting manner but it's where WE finish at the seasons end that he'll be judged on ...

Since Marinakis bought the club it's been on an upward curve and there's a feel good factor we've not experienced in years .. Chill out mate it's not as bad as you think ... 

 

why do we have to chose between expansive exciting football and points? Leeds don't?

come on mate was the atmosphere really vibrant until we scored? it was a dull boring game that had a total of 3 shots on target from both team and but for a quick reaction from Grabban it had 0-0 written all over it.

how can you forget what happened to Boro under Karanka it was his only other job and we are witnessing the exact thing here. He is a one trick pony

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4319662/Aitor-Karanka-sacked-Middlesbrough.html

"He also said the fans were not doing enough to support the team or his careful style of play"

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/3102889/boro-aitor-karanka-steve-gibson-sack/

"It is claimed that Gibson, like the club’s supporters, has grown frustrated with the lack of attacking application his team have shown in recent months."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/03/16/middlesbrough-sack-aitor-karanka/

Middlesbrough are the Premier League's lowest goal-scorers this season, with just 19 in 27 games, while they have also had the fewest shots and won fewer games than any other team.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3489369/Middlesbrough-set-sack-Aitor-Karanka-manager-stormed-team-meeting.html

Sportsmail understands the players held their own meeting during which they discussed their manager’s criticism, and when this was then addressed in the presence of their boss tempers flared - and he walked out of the club.

 

Edited by E R
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this makes interesting reading about the shots per game - 11.50 per game with 3.75 on target

http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=league_shots

only

Blackburn, Wednesday, Bolton, Reading, Hull and Ipswich have managed less

We have 209 shots against with only West Brom, Blackburn, Wednesday, Rotherham, Bolton and Reading facing more

 

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184 shots in total - outside the bottom 3 only Blackburn, Wednesday and Bolton have managed less

http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=league_corners

for and against corners ratio - 77.45

Just QPR, Wigan, Wednesday, Rotherham and Bolton have a worse ration

Corners against - we have faced 40 more than Leeds, 30 more than Norwich and nearly 20 more then Derby - Only Rotherham, Bolton and Reading have faced more corners

Edited by E R

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AND yet we sit in 6th position, 4 points off top. 

If only we had those extra 100 shots a game. 

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3 minutes ago, darcy said:

AND yet we sit in 6th position, 4 points off top. 

If only we had those extra 100 shots a game. 

Yep. It can be done. Entertainment and results aren't mutually exclusive you know!

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2 hours ago, E R said:

this makes interesting reading about the shots per game - 11.50 per game with 3.75 on target

http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=league_shots

only

Blackburn, Wednesday, Bolton, Reading, Hull and Ipswich have managed less

We have 209 shots against with only West Brom, Blackburn, Wednesday, Rotherham, Bolton and Reading facing more

 

Jamie , you can quote all the statistics and historical data you chose but it doesn't mean diddly squat  in today's context .. Different folks _= Different strokes .. It's results that count and even if the substance takes precedence over the style then so be it .. IF Karanka gets us promoted he'll have done the job he was employed for . Nobody will give a shit how he achieved it ... . 

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Boro were promoted in 15/16 and managed 632 shots - we finished 16th and managed 9 less on 623 😂

 

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37 minutes ago, colin said:

Jamie , you can quote all the statistics and historical data you chose but it doesn't mean diddly squat  in today's context .. Different folks _= Different strokes .. It's results that count and even if the substance takes precedence over the style then so be it .. IF Karanka gets us promoted he'll have done the job he was employed for . Nobody will give a shit how he achieved it ... . 

Good job that isn't everyone's attitude otherwise the game would be awful.

What's the point in sport if the entire aim is to win by any means necessary? Sport is a spectacle that is meant to entertain. 

So we go up (hardly guaranteed) boring us all to tears and then what? Bore our way to relegation again? Can't wait :D match of the day will be amazing seeing us lose 1-0 each week to Brighton/Burnley/Southampton.

how many teams over the years have played defensive anti-football and got promoted and stayed up? I can think Stoke and Burnley and that's it. And even Burnley play decent stuff but are (were) just solid.

Swansea, Bournemouth, Wolves, Brighton, Huddersfield, Leicester, Watford and Palace all played good stuff when they went up. Not gung go but they took the game to opponents. Your Boros, Cardiff this year, Derby, Sheff Utd, Blackburn and Hull go up playing dire stuff and guess what, they come straight back usually with a huge wage bill as they're found out.

It's short termism at its finest. Can't wait.

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If you go to see Forest you will see 3.75 efforts on target and in our last 2 home games we managed 4 shots on target - you can see why the atmos is so vibrant 🤣

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12 minutes ago, E R said:

If you go to see Forest you will see 3.75 efforts on target and in our last 2 home games we managed 4 shots on target - you can see why the atmos is so vibrant 🤣

£8 a shot. Seems like good value :lol:

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I actually checked and we only managed 2 on target against Millwall as well - that is 6 on target in 3 games. Fucking shocking!

i wonder if we can name them - I think I have got 5 but cannot place the second shot on target against Norwich? Anyone?

6. Carvalho’s goal against Millwall

5. Lolley’s goal against Milwall

4. Grabban’s goal against Norwich

3. ?

2. Grabban’s goal against Sheff Utd

1. Jack Robinson’s “volley” against Sheff Utd

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5 hours ago, E R said:

If you go to see Forest you will see 3.75 efforts on target and in our last 2 home games we managed 4 shots on target - you can see why the atmos is so vibrant 🤣

Couldn't fault the atmosphere last Sat.

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I think Karanka is the most divisive manager we have had.

You all know I hate his brand of football. I cannot watch us defend, score, defend, defend. Football is meant to be entertaining, Karanka makes it a pain to watch.

Yet there are others who'll gladly take this football as long as the results are there. Creaming over being 6th in a piss pot league.

The way I see it, we are 6th not because of Karanka, we are there because of the investment in players made by Mr Marinakis.  Lolley and Grabban, are taking the few chances that come their way.We'd probably be in the bottom third, struggling for a point without their input.

It is impossible to say if we had a manager who played the game with more attacking flair that we'd be better or worse off points wise. Personally, with this squad, I don't see any reason why we can't play expansive football and win games as well. But we'll never find that out whilst Karanka is here.

Someone on here said that when we take the handbrake off, we concede silly goals. Utter rubbish. We've never taken the handbrake off under Karanka. The last time we did was the Arsenal Cup game under Brazil, the last game we played pre Karanka. Under Karanka, not only do we apply the handbrake, we select "P" as well.

All of this puts me in a difficult position. I love Forest with all of my heart, as do many of you on here. I want them to succeed, I want them in the Prem, and I want them to win. Conversely, I want Karanka gone. I want his horrible football to fail, I want to see Forest play controlled, attacking football, and not two shots on target per game. In fact, I despise Karanka's brand of football, just as I did Megson's.

Forest v Stoke tomorrow. On paper this should be an entertaining game. A club who have invested heavily in their squad, against a team that was in the Prem last season. In reality, it will be boring as fuck, with two horrible managers just trying to grind out a result. I will be going to this match, if for no other reason than to catch up with some very good friends who I haven't seen since last season due to my work commitments. Any chance of me seeing us put 7 or 8 shots on target and be a little entertained?

 

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