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#41 JohnReese

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 06:46 PM

Having a season worse than the last would mean you would get rid of the manager.? So he would be instantly under pressure knowing if he finishes further down the table he would be gone. Are people not allowed to learn by their mistakes then and improve from them? Are you just gona jump from manager to manager hoping we finish 18th, 16th, 14th, 12th, 10th 8th, 6th?? Any decent manager will have long term ambitions and a 12 month contract isn't enough time for them to implement them thoroughly


Ok. You give a manager a three year contract. No pressure on him then. By December we are bottom but, no worries he's got a three year contract so even if he takes them down he's still in the job. No pressure second year in with still a year left so will he care if he takes us back up or not? Probable scenario would be sacking him in the December of his first year and paying off the remainder of his three year contract. That's really helped us in the past hasn't it?

#42 Bcrawa

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:31 PM

Personally I like 3 month changes. Coincides nicely with my password changes at work.
Do you think you are good enough....?

#43 Dane B

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:13 AM

He came in Jan, and had to quickly assess the squad and make quick improvements to halt our slide and keep us up. He has done that

 

Only because of the points amassed before he came here Gupi. We are actually a worse team under Karanka. He halted our slide so well that we broke the club record for not scoring. And that feat cost us God knows how many millions on players in January.

 

I just don't understand how anyone can think that Karanka can turn things around. He is the closest thing we have had to Gary Megson, and he will only take us one way.

 

I agree that sacking managers gets us nowhere, but as Legs says, it's not sacking managers that's our problem, it's appointing the shite in the first place that is the issue.

 

He will spend money in the Summer, and if Dawson is the level of his proposed signings, then he is fucked. He will get sacked. We will appoint another manager to take over a bunch of players that he doesn't want, or who aren't good enough, and the whole merry go round starts over again.

 

I honestly don't think that a manager who's team can fail to score in 11 of 15 games can turn us into anything but relegation fodder the following season. I'm amazed that anyone on here can be as blind as to think any different.

 

But hey ho, that's just my opinion. Let him spunk millions away in the Summer and see what happens.


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#44 Dane B

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:33 AM

Hart and O' Driscoll. 100%.

 

Still a mystery as to why SOD was sacked Andy. 7th in the league at Christmas and given the boot.

 

I would say only at Forest, but Brum did the same with Rowett, and look at Birmingham now.


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#45 E R

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:52 AM

Who would you have Dane? I guess you are suggesting sacking Karanka in the summer?

#46 Dane B

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:01 AM

Who would you have Dane? I guess you are suggesting sacking Karanka in the summer?

 

You know what Jamie, I honestly don't know mate. We just seem to be a poisoned chalice for any manager that takes over. I'm not suggesting we sack Karanka, I'm saying he WILL get sacked unless he changes his approach. I don't want him to be given millions to spend in the Summer just to be sacked in December. It's pointless.

 

Probably the easiest, and cheapest solution, might be to try and convince Brazil to take the job. He knows the club, knows the players, knows the fans. I just look at the way he sent out a team to attack Arsenal. Yes, I know it was only one game, but it was so refreshing to see Forest attack the way we did that day. Has young Brereton had a better game under any other manager?

 

It's very easy for us to sit here at our keyboards and be critical of a manager. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, and we don't know what plans he has for the future. But based on results, Karanka has made it far too easy for us to be critical of his tactics and his football philosophy.

 

Anyway mate, I championed the appointment of Warburton for two seasons before he arrived...............so what do I know?  :D  :D  :D


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#47 E R

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:28 AM

Yep me too about Warbs and within about 3 months I couldnt stand that insistence of passing it from the back. What I have noticed that all managers we seem to get in have a set style of play which they refuse to adapt to the players that have at the club. Warbuton you HAVE to play from the back. Karanka 8 behind the ball and hope your forwards get a goal.

The goals is obviously an issue but I personally am sick of new managers because as you point out they will just bring in a bunch of players that suit their set in stone style. So when we sack them 6 months later we are lumbered with their players and the new manager normally has different ideas and the cycle goes on

I am at a loss over the club and as I said I will probably moan and say sack him when things are shit by Christmas, but my heart is saying what have we got to lose if we give him the next two full seasons and see what he can do.

The players at the club are cunts and clearly know that if they dont perform the manager will get the boot and Karanka has already said there are a few disruptive players in the club. So if they know he is staying and he has already shown he will fuck off anyone who doesnt toe the line - in my opinion he is as good as anyone to give a real chance to settle in and set up a team capable of winning as he proved at boro


Edited by E R, 16 April 2018 - 11:30 AM.


#48 Dane B

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:43 AM

Like I said Jamie, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

 

Karanka said in January that there were disruptive players at the club, and he cleared them out. Now, 3 months later, he is saying there are disruptive players at the club........but we don't know why these players are being disruptive, do we? I know that if I worked under negative managers like Warburton and Karanka, I'd be voicing my opinion. If the players are constantly being told to sit behind the ball and not get forward, I'd have something to say about it. If  I was getting booed off the pitch because of the managers negative tactics, I'd have something to say about it.

 

Maybe what Karanka is really trying to say is that he doesn't like any criticism from his players on his negative tactics. Megson was exactly the same, always somebody else's fault, never his. It's poor man management, and managers ought to have learned by now that players don't get sacked, managers do, and players can go a long way to getting the manager the boot.


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#49 Dane B

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:52 AM

There was a story about a young talented player at WBA who was tipped to be a star player. He once dared to question Megson's tactics during a training session, and he never appeared in a Baggies shirt again after that.

 

Would you class that player as being disruptive, or just pointing out to the manager that there are different ways to play a game that suit the players better?


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#50 i.k.s

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:12 PM

I cannot think of one single manager that adapts their style of play because a player wanted him to.



#51 Charlie Cheswick

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:37 PM

I know you're just making conversation Dane but you'd have to be completely deranged to think the managers have been or are the problem here. 

 

Get to the Summer, get shot of who needs getting shot of and bring in what's needed then discuss.

 

We say everytime we get a manager that they have to sort the player situation out here and none of the fuckers come close to trying, mostly because they're managing with both hands tied behind their backs.  If this one is willing to give it a go good on him.  If he's successful it'll make a change not having to watch our players down tools two or three times a year.



#52 JohnReese

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:42 PM

There was a story about a young talented player at WBA who was tipped to be a star player. He once dared to question Megson's tactics during a training session, and he never appeared in a Baggies shirt again after that.
 
Would you class that player as being disruptive, or just pointing out to the manager that there are different ways to play a game that suit the players better?


Think each manager is different, some might listen, some might even experiment with it in training but some will just tell the player
"I'm the manager and I know best" ala Cloughie but imo it's not being as disruptive as players threatening to leave a club unless they get the pay increase they think they deserve, then getting it, wouldn't that piss team mates off more? It would for me.

#53 GupiRed2

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:05 PM

 

Only because of the points amassed before he came here Gupi. We are actually a worse team under Karanka. He halted our slide so well that we broke the club record for not scoring. And that feat cost us God knows how many millions on players in January.

 

I just don't understand how anyone can think that Karanka can turn things around. He is the closest thing we have had to Gary Megson, and he will only take us one way.

 

I agree that sacking managers gets us nowhere, but as Legs says, it's not sacking managers that's our problem, it's appointing the shite in the first place that is the issue.

 

He will spend money in the Summer, and if Dawson is the level of his proposed signings, then he is fucked. He will get sacked. We will appoint another manager to take over a bunch of players that he doesn't want, or who aren't good enough, and the whole merry go round starts over again.

 

I honestly don't think that a manager who's team can fail to score in 11 of 15 games can turn us into anything but relegation fodder the following season. I'm amazed that anyone on here can be as blind as to think any different.

 

But hey ho, that's just my opinion. Let him spunk millions away in the Summer and see what happens.

 

Im not sure we are. I remember Warbs last 2 games losing 3-0 at home to managerless and injury ridden Sheff Weds and then probably even worse 1-0 to Sunderland. There was no plan B under Warbs, we didn't look capable of keeping the ball out of our net either and we were sliding down the league. January is a difficult window in general, even harder when you've only arrived at the club during the 1st week of it.

 

The signings he has made I dont think have been that bad, Tobias, Pantilamon, Lolley and Watson I think are good signings, Tomlin has had his moments too. With a bit of cash to spend in the Summer we may be able to actually attract some decent players. No goals in 11 of the 15 games is frustrating but we have had no option but to play 18 year old Brereton upfront. Stick a fit Murphy up top like Warbs had at the start of the season and Im sure we'd have scored more, the resources at hand are limited. 

 

Im not saying Karanka will be a success but at the very least should be given the time to ship out the deadwood (which he started doing in Jan) and bring in a few much needed quality additions. He has a track record of getting a team out of this division and clearly has high standards for himself if his post match interview is anything to go by. He now has time to get the squad ready for next season so I will personally judge him from then.



#54 Art Vandelay

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 07:28 AM

Results are worse than under Warburton, that's just a fact. Despite further bloating the massive squad and, I think it's safe to assume, increasing the wage bill we are scoring fewer goals, winning less often, and picking up fewer points. More clean sheets though so it is good news for fans of negative football :thumbsup_still:


Edited by Art Vandelay, 20 April 2018 - 08:26 AM.

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#55 E R

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:21 AM

What did you want to stick with the team we had and keep Warbuton in charge?

#56 bestwood_red!

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 11:33 AM

Yeah Id rather have kept Warburton and given him a couple of transfer windows.

#57 Fatles

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 12:08 PM

The football under Warb's was awful, tippy tappy in the penalty box, the back 4 looking shit scared every time they got the ball, just plain awful.

we're better defensively and in the midfield now, just got to sort out up front.



#58 Charlie Cheswick

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 02:05 PM

The football under Warb's was awful, tippy tappy in the penalty box, the back 4 looking shit scared every time they got the ball, just plain awful.

we're better defensively and in the midfield now, just got to sort out up front.

 

I agree.  Karanka obviously needs a striker who can hold on to the ball and knows where the goal is.  Everything else is OK, it just all falls down in the last third.  We're a clear out coupled with three good incoming players away from having a good squad. 

 

I feel confident Karanka knows what he's doing and will act if something needs to be done.  Compare that with Warburton who thought we'd turn into Barcelona if we trained hard enough, fuck all that. 






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