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19 hours ago, nemesiz said:

Wanna Bet?! Not when we have SJW, LGBTQ+, PC, ME, ME, ME Generation running the Asylum, well the UK and European Parliament. When the Millennium began did all common sense get chucked out the window?     

What's that nuttiness you just said?  

What has that got to do with changing environmental policies?  

 

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4 hours ago, nemesiz said:

 

Ah so you can't argue your point so resort to insults, defamatory comments. If you want valid examples to re-iterate and reinforce the attack on conservatism and the centre-right just examine the way the Media have reported the UKIP and Brexit Candidates on the EU campaign trail. All are said to be "FAR RIGHT".  Or the expunging of Twitter, You-Tube and other accounts.  Also have a look at the independent Journalist Tim Pool (Moderate Left) and how America has shifted to the left (and it's relevant here too). If you believe that this country hasn't got any bias towards the leftist agenda then why has prominence, protection, security of ethnic minorities, Feminism, LGBTQ rights above traditional, secular teachings? There is even a draft Government document that is publicly available to make all criticism a HATE Crime. This is all the consequence of a leftist agenda in this society.        

 

I don't understand how not hating on gays is a leftist agenda.

My work colleague is a right wing libertarian.  He's fine with all of this supposed leftism stuff, which basically means don't be a cunt.

Of course there are plenty of nutters in the feminist and LGTB movements but then there are nutters in every walk of life.   

He also shares the same view as me on the BBC, in that they're the Establishment news outlet.  Which basically means the right and the left hate them because both think they're too right wing and too left wing.  Neither have the brains to figure out what they actually are.  

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Why is it seen as a funny and a lighthearted news piece when Nigel Farage has milkshakes thrown at him wherever he goes but when “big burly white men” shout traitor at Anna Sourby it’s the top story on all the news shows and she’s given armed guards, panic buttons and we are all lectured about how saying that to her is sexist and misogynistic? Bloody right wing news, it’s disgusting. 

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The thing with Farage is, not long ago he said he would pick up a rifle if needs be. Now he's crying over a milkshake. Hardly think he'll be much cop in a battle.

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13 hours ago, Daz said:

Tories for me. It's important that the Brexit Party are a pressure group but it is only the tories who can deliver in Parliament. 

The Tories haven't delivered in Parliament since Cameron.

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A milkshake never hurt anything but pride.  Find me one of our politicians that doesn't deserve a milkshake over them. Can't think of any, but that chancer Farage would be one of the first, Boris next.  

People are getting furious at the state of our politics and somehow still not seeing the worst and most corrupt of them all.  

That's before you even get to townks like May who is as inept as anyone before her and Corbyn who is so shit that he still lags behind her.  

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12 hours ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

What's that nuttiness you just said?  

What has that got to do with changing environmental policies?  

 

Sorry CC for the long winded explanation......

In laymen terms for inclusivity the government to appease minorities - Social Justice Warriors (SJW) Lesbian, Gays, Queer, Transgender (LGQT) Community it is introducing legislation and policies that could have a detrimental effect on the day to day decisions. So for example BBC have a policy of positive discrimination to bring Equality or rather Equity into the workforce, rather than choosing the best candidate for the job. Thus the viewers are seeing a higher proportional amount of White or Asian Women, or Black Men in Presenter jobs to fill an overall quota. The problem is that Universities provide the majority of candidates for high powered jobs, including Politicians and Journalists. Whilst in the past these types of establishments had a balance of moderates but what we're seeing is a shift towards policies that assist and promote minorities, or attack those that disagree with certain agenda. 

What's this got to do with Environmental policies? With the attack on Conservatism and Far-Right what we're seeing is a shift to a left centre agenda. Usually it is the Left moderates that drives policies and campaigning for ideological policies such as Environmentalism, but what we're strangely seeing is that any anti-disestablishment or attacks are being ignored, unreported or simply not represented correctly. Most of the outspoken, disgruntled, vocal are 'far'-left or right on the political spectrum. Unfortunately the media and government are stamping down hard on those complain in an attempt to appease the minorities. This is very important as without any avenue for freedom of speech how do you complain, or correct the wrongs?

In the Seventies, Eighties and Nineties we grew up inundated with continual basic teaching of 'right and wrong' from institutions, religious practises and through inadvertent or subliminal messaging and campaigns (i.e. Keep Britain Tidy, Cartoons, even Sesame Street :D ). This included a push towards Environmentalism - Small Cars (Polo), less waste, conservation of water. It started around the Millennium that a shift occurred with the appointment of Tony Blair, but also Political Correctness. What we saw was a slew of policies and attitudes that pandered towards a family or child friendly approach and equality towards women whatever the cost. Now we're seeing the consequences of this policy. How many people are criticized for large families, spiralling population, buying habits in a throwaway culture? You don't or should I say you dare not.         

 

   

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I'll be honest, I read all of that but I don't get what the point of it is.  What's the crux of it?

I'm assuming you're blaming equality for women for global warming?  

Or is it BBC appointing black presenters?  

Or both?

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10 hours ago, nottmred said:

Should stop moaning about milkshakes and do what Prescott did and chin them 😂

I loved that lol. Even as a very liberal teenager I knew that the furore against Prescott was wrong, he had a right to defend himself. 

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1 hour ago, nemesiz said:

Sorry CC for the long winded explanation......

In laymen terms for inclusivity the government to appease minorities - Social Justice Warriors (SJW) Lesbian, Gays, Queer, Transgender (LGQT) Community it is introducing legislation and policies that could have a detrimental effect on the day to day decisions. So for example BBC have a policy of positive discrimination to bring Equality or rather Equity into the workforce, rather than choosing the best candidate for the job. Thus the viewers are seeing a higher proportional amount of White or Asian Women, or Black Men in Presenter jobs to fill an overall quota. The problem is that Universities provide the majority of candidates for high powered jobs, including Politicians and Journalists. Whilst in the past these types of establishments had a balance of moderates but what we're seeing is a shift towards policies that assist and promote minorities, or attack those that disagree with certain agenda. 

What's this got to do with Environmental policies? With the attack on Conservatism and Far-Right what we're seeing is a shift to a left centre agenda. Usually it is the Left moderates that drives policies and campaigning for ideological policies such as Environmentalism, but what we're strangely seeing is that any anti-disestablishment or attacks are being ignored, unreported or simply not represented correctly. Most of the outspoken, disgruntled, vocal are 'far'-left or right on the political spectrum. Unfortunately the media and government are stamping down hard on those complain in an attempt to appease the minorities. This is very important as without any avenue for freedom of speech how do you complain, or correct the wrongs?

In the Seventies, Eighties and Nineties we grew up inundated with continual basic teaching of 'right and wrong' from institutions, religious practises and through inadvertent or subliminal messaging and campaigns (i.e. Keep Britain Tidy, Cartoons, even Sesame Street :D ). This included a push towards Environmentalism - Small Cars (Polo), less waste, conservation of water. It started around the Millennium that a shift occurred with the appointment of Tony Blair, but also Political Correctness. What we saw was a slew of policies and attitudes that pandered towards a family or child friendly approach and equality towards women whatever the cost. Now we're seeing the consequences of this policy. How many people are criticized for large families, spiralling population, buying habits in a throwaway culture? You don't or should I say you dare not.         

 

   

Much of this stuff is imported from the US where they have real issues that are not relevant in the UK. Environmentalism in the US is a left v right issue, whereas in the UK most people either accept the science or realise that even if there is a chance it is incorrect, the risk is too great to ignore. This whole left v right crap has arisen, not because of Blair, but as a result of the Internet connecting us to the US and morons thinking that because there is a common language there is a common culture. The attack on conservativism is an imported US thing based upon the divide in US politics, conservativism means something different here and the offended millenial generation haven't got the nouce to realise this and that that doesn't apply to the same extent within UK.

None of this precludes the fact that Boris Johnson is a clown and the conservative party is currently a circus. 

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11 hours ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

A milkshake never hurt anything but pride.  Find me one of our politicians that doesn't deserve a milkshake over them. Can't think of any, but that chancer Farage would be one of the first, Boris next.  

People are getting furious at the state of our politics and somehow still not seeing the worst and most corrupt of them all.  

That's before you even get to townks like May who is as inept as anyone before her and Corbyn who is so shit that he still lags behind her.  

Words never hurt anyone either but we got a weeks worth of sour pout on the news because someone shouted traitor at her. 

Everyone knows that every politician is full of shit, I don’t know why people argue over politics when the ones who represent genuinely don’t give a shit. I’ll never forget that fucker Coaker coming to my work and saying the privatisation of Royal Mail is a good thing and needs to happen and we will all be better off. A year later he comes back when the Tories are in power and tells everyone he will do everything in his power to stop the greedy Tories from selling Royal Mail and we need to stand together and fight privatisation or lose our jobs. Two faced wanker. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr Smith said:

Much of this stuff is imported from the US where they have real issues that are not relevant in the UK. Environmentalism in the US is a left v right issue, whereas in the UK most people either accept the science or realise that even if there is a chance it is incorrect, the risk is too great to ignore. This whole left v right crap has arisen, not because of Blair, but as a result of the Internet connecting us to the US and morons thinking that because there is a common language there is a common culture. The attack on conservativism is an imported US thing based upon the divide in US politics, conservativism means something different here and the offended millenial generation haven't got the nouce to realise this and that that doesn't apply to the same extent within UK.

None of this precludes the fact that Boris Johnson is a clown and the conservative party is currently a circus. 

Agreed about the US thing. How many women on Facebook and Twitter are going on about the 6 week abortion bill and saying they want the right to their bodies back. Half of them genuinely think that law has passed in Britain. It’s a law in one little pocket of backward southern USA. 

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3 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

Much of this stuff is imported from the US where they have real issues that are not relevant in the UK. Environmentalism in the US is a left v right issue, whereas in the UK most people either accept the science or realise that even if there is a chance it is incorrect, the risk is too great to ignore. This whole left v right crap has arisen, not because of Blair, but as a result of the Internet connecting us to the US and morons thinking that because there is a common language there is a common culture. The attack on conservativism is an imported US thing based upon the divide in US politics, conservativism means something different here and the offended millenial generation haven't got the nouce to realise this and that that doesn't apply to the same extent within UK. 

None of this precludes the fact that Boris Johnson is a clown and the conservative party is currently a circus. 

Yes there is a substantial difference between Conservative image, ideology, and politics in America and Britain. Although attack on Conservatism probably started in this country way before many proponents believe, probably under Margaret Thatcher's Premiership or earlier. It has only become relevant or mainstream in the last few years, thanks to rise of TRUMP, Corbynism, and Anti-Blair rhetoric though, and anti-disestablishment sentiments and distrust especially since the Banking Crisis, and Austerity. 

At present we're probably in unchartered territory Economically and Politically as previous hypothesis, rules and history doesn't apply, especially as technology is driving force for change. What we're seeing is traditional roles and Industry becoming obsolete. This is impacting on the indigenous populous, and communities on the whole, who are also facing pressure from outside influences. Unfortunately this anger, frustration and dissatisfaction cannot be voiced openly, otherwise you're called a Racist, Sexist, Bigot, Fascist, or vilified publicly which could impact your life - loss of job, being attacked or harassed. 

 

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Whenever there are economically tough times it's always the people from elsewhere who get the blame.  

It's much easier to blame foreigners for your bad lot than take personal responsibility for being a complete Drongo, or our politicians for using houses for investment instead of places for people to live in, or politicians for not having tight enough banking regulations, or politicians for creating and promoting a society where a handful of people take the spoils and everyone else the scraps, you know, the reasons why people are struggling to get a mortgage or pay their rent, of that their bills take most of their money, or their job prospects are a bit shit.  

For example, I lost everything not that long ago through no fault of my own, did I sit on my arse blaming foreigners for it?  No, I worked my arse off to get myself back on track again.  The trouble with the general populace is there are too many lazy cunts.  The type of twats who don't know the difference between they're there and their, or to, too and two.  You know the sorts.  9 times out of ten when people go on dodgy rants their spelling tells you all you need to know.   

But it has to be accepted that even if you aren't a lazy bastard, successive governments have created a system here that will make things as hard as possible regardless.  

There is that, or you could just blame foreigners and keep crying when people call you out on it.

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Because a Leadsom fucked off and May is in hiding some unknown MP from Nottingham filled in at the desptach box. The fucking Tory for Erewash asked him to wish the shaggers well in the playoffs. 

Tory wanker.

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And now we have to put up with a Tory party leadership contest. This entire Brexit process has been de-railed by this bunch of self-indulgent twats. They have completely fucked this country.

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Leave supporting parties - 58%

Remainy parties - 40%

Even if you exclude Labour then still a 4% win for pro leave supporters.

I know there are more important things in life, but the message is fairly clear

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3 hours ago, Daz said:

Leave supporting parties - 58%

Remainy parties - 40%

Even if you exclude Labour then still a 4% win for pro leave supporters.

I know there are more important things in life, but the message is fairly clear

I don't think you've got that right.

 

Based on the current results with 10 of 12 regions decided, the Leave / Remain share is as follows:

 

Leave (Brexit & UKIP): 36.8%

Remain (Lib Dem, Greens, Change UK, Plaid Cymru): 38%

 

The above parties are those who's supporters are either for leaving or remaining. So we have a narrow lead for Remain.

 

What would change things should there be a second referendum are the votes of Conservative and Labour voters. So far they make up 8.8% and 14.6% of the vote respectively. This is where it gets harder to predict. We know most grassroots Conservatives what some sort of Brexit, but some wish to remain. Equally we're told most of the Labour membership wish to remain but some traditional Labour voters, such as in Northern constituencies, wish to leave.

Let's say three quarters of Conservative voters would vote to Leave in second referendum. That gives 6.6% more votes to Leave, taking their share up to 43.4%. If the remaining quarter vote remain, Remain goes up to 40.2%.

Again, let's say three quarters of the Labour vote votes as their membership indicate and backs remain. So that would be another 10.95% votes for Remain, taking it up to 51.15%. The Leave vote would be increased by 3.65%, taking their share up to 47.05%.

 

So based on the votes so far and of what we know about how Conservative and Labour supports are likely to vote (I appreciate the second part of the equation isn't an exact science) if anything if a second referendum was run tomorrow it seems Remain would narrowly win it.

So despite the Brexit party getting the highest share of the vote, the overall picture in terms of voters wishing to Leave or Remain the EU is still very much one of a divided country, albeit one which is narrowly in favour of remaining.

 

 

 

 

Edited by H-Block

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I don't think you can read anything into it other than there is a proportion of the population who are hardcore leavers, another part who are hardcore remainers and the rest of us somewhere in between, ranging from not caring to wishing the lot of them would fall into a bottomless pit, I'd wager a lot of the people in the in between category didn't bother to vote at all.  

I abstained in the end, I didn't feel that any of the twats needed any encouragement.

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3 hours ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

I abstained in the end, I didn't feel that any of the twats needed any encouragement.

Me too. The politicians will read what they want into this, however, the sad fact is that the 120k Tory party members will decide what happens next, not the UK population.

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12 hours ago, H-Block said:

I don't think you've got that right.

 

Based on the current results with 10 of 12 regions decided, the Leave / Remain share is as follows:

 

Leave (Brexit & UKIP): 36.8%

Remain (Lib Dem, Greens, Change UK, Plaid Cymru): 38%

 

 

 

 

 

Sky News had figures on earlier which very closely match the above, the only difference being Leave had slipped to 35%.

They then speculated that if Labour soon got behind a second referendum and you also add the SNP (pro-remain) votes, if we had referendum tomorrow 50% would vote to Remain. They then added to the Conservative vote to the Leave vote to come to a projection of 44% for Leave.

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My own projection now that we have the results from all 12 regions:

 

Leave (Brexit & UKIP): 34.9%

Remain (Lib Dem, Green, Change UK, Plaid Cymru, SNP): 40.4%

Distribute 75% of the 9.1% Conservative votes to Leave and 25% to Remain. Leave =  41.725% Remain = 42.675%

Distribute 75% of the 14.1% Labour votes to Remain and 25% to Leave. Leave = 45.25% Remain = 53.25%

 

It seems reporting the result as a massive victory for the Brexit Party or leavers is to miss the devil in the detail. The Brexit Party may be sending more MEPs to Europe than any other single party, but that's because they were the only credible outlet for those who wanted to register a protest vote in favour of leaving. Depending on where they lived, remainers had anything up to five different such outlets to vent their frustrations and when their votes are combined, we have more people voting to remain than voted to leave.

 

With regards where Conservative and Labour voters would cast their votes in a second referendum, I appreciate you might not agree with my 75/25 division, but given Thursday's result, whichever credible division you assign would still point toward a remain victory. It seems the mood of the country has changed since June 2016.

 

Edited by H-Block

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6 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

Me too. The politicians will read what they want into this, however, the sad fact is that the 120k Tory party members will decide what happens next, not the UK population.

The unwritten rule if the Prime Minister and Party leader is given a vote of no confidence, the replacement must call an election as soon as possible to validate their claim. Of course this didn't happen with Gordon Brown, but this was an exception. Concerning the Tory leadership challenge the frontrunner doesn't normally win, so be prepared for Andrea Leadsom or Esther McVey 🤣

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31 minutes ago, H-Block said:

My own projection now that we have the results from all 12 regions:

 

Leave (Brexit & UKIP): 34.9%

Remain (Lib Dem, Green, Change UK, Plaid Cymru, SNP): 40.4%

Distribute 75% of the 9.1% Conservative votes to Leave and 25% to Remain. Leave =  41.725% Remain = 42.675%

Distribute 75% of the 14.1% Labour votes to Remain and 25% to Leave. Leave = 45.25% Remain = 53.25%

 

It seems reporting the result as a massive victory for the Brexit Party or leavers is to miss the devil in the detail. The Brexit Party may be sending more MEPs to Europe than any other single party, but that's because they were the only credible outlet for those who wanted to register a protest vote in favour of leaving. Depending on where they lived, remainers had anything up to five different such outlets to vent their frustrations and when their votes are combined, we have more people voting to remain than voted to leave.

With regards where Conservative and Labour voters would cast their votes in a second referendum, I appreciate you might not agree with my 75/25 division, but given Thursday's result, whichever credible division you assign would still point toward a remain victory. It seems the mood of the country has changed since June 2016.

 

Sorry H, you are picking numbers out of thin air. The official Labour and Tory policy at the moment is to leave (hence why the likes of Hesseltine and Ali Campbell voted Lib Dem). To suggest other splits is a little disingenuous.

My initial comment was perhaps a little simplistic but Ashcroft's polling still suggests a leave majority (https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/05/my-euro-election-post-vote-poll-most-tory-switchers-say-they-will-stay-with-their-new-party/#more-15953) and of course the story of the day is the Brexit Party winning. Enormous implications when you consider we use FPTP

"Among all those voting in the European elections, 50% said they had voted to remain in the referendum and 45% to leave; now, 50% said they wanted to leave, 46% said they wanted to remain, and 4% didn’t know." 

Edited by Daz

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