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On 5/4/2019 at 3:44 PM, Daz555 said:

Interesting how Labour leadership and Tories have spun the vote for remain parties in the local elections as a "call to get on with Brexit".

Nope. Not even fucking close.

 

I'd say anyone who feels passionate on either side ditched them.  But both are trying desperately to appeal to leave voters so that's who they're spinning too.  

That's before you start on them both being a complete set of drongos in every other area.  

It'll never happen cause they're all completely self serving, but they'll re-engage me when they implement a change of electoral system so we can vote for what we want instead of having to choose between a kick to the left bollock or a kick to the right bollock.  Until then they can go sit on a spike. 

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Boris as PM? Just cancel Brexit. I do not like the EU, but UK sovereignty is just complete shite. 

I maintain that Brexit could have been a success if we had approached the negotiations correctly and used the UK's significant economic and security contribution to our advantage. However, our useless politicians have failed us and being run by Eurocrats cannot be worse than what our shambles of a democracy gives us.

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Exactly.  That's why I've been banging on about this just being a sideshow and what we need to do is turn our own house around before we even consider that getting out of the EU will help us.

We can start by changing our electoral system to something which works and go from there.

As it stands, and it's always been my argument for not leaving the EU, we're run by a bunch of corrupt shit houses, the alternative has pretty much become a cult, and that needs to change before we hand them even more power.  

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One of the tragedies of Brexit is that your average person, particularly a working average person, has been better looked after in terms of rights by the EU than by UK governments of either political persuasion.

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How are we all voting on Thursday? I want to vote for a party that advocates remaining in the EU and which will offer a second referendum on staying or going (not a confirmatory referendum where we're forced to chose between various deals which aren't as beneficial as remaining EU members).

Listening to the leaders of Change UK, Labour and the Liberal Democrats either not having a clear position or trying to railroad us to revoking Article 50 (the outcome of which might delight me but which I don't think is democratic) is leading me to doing something I've never done in my life. It's leading me to voting Green.

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 5:06 PM, Charlie Cheswick said:

I'll probably go Green too.  Same reasons.

If the Greens had a REALISTIC, sensible policies then yes voting for the Green party would be a viable option. Unfortunately Green MP Caroline Lucas emphasizes everything wrong with the political party, and why voting for in the European Elections is complete waste of time and effort. The Party comes across as Leftist, Upper Class group with little to no common sense. Instead of actually discussing alternative short-term environmental that could be implemented, immediately pontificate their agenda without realising there are serious Environmental ramifications or costs. Take Lithium (Ion) Batteries, presently the technology is still in it's infancy, inefficient, state after roughly 50 years use, only in the past few years we're seeing capacity increasing. Whilst industry can ramp up production, the implications is the detrimental effect on the environment but also battery costs will climb! (Already has).

What angers me about the Green party is their continual criticism of the government without trying to help shape or discuss ways to change national policies. It is this impasse, and general malaise and distrust that make it difficult to actually help promote and shape the impact climate control has on the environment. Sometimes making a pact with the Devil might bring noticeable changes.....   

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45 minutes ago, nemesiz said:

If the Greens had a REALISTIC, sensible policies then yes voting for the Green party would be a viable option. Unfortunately Green MP Caroline Lucas emphasizes everything wrong with the political party, and why voting for in the European Elections is complete waste of time and effort. The Party comes across as Leftist, Upper Class group with little to no common sense. Instead of actually discussing alternative short-term environmental that could be implemented, immediately pontificate their agenda without realising there are serious Environmental ramifications or costs. Take Lithium (Ion) Batteries, presently the technology is still in it's infancy, inefficient, state after roughly 50 years use, only in the past few years we're seeing capacity increasing. Whilst industry can ramp up production, the implications is the detrimental effect on the environment but also battery costs will climb! (Already has).

What angers me about the Green party is their continual criticism of the government without trying to help shape or discuss ways to change national policies. It is this impasse, and general malaise and distrust that make it difficult to actually help promote and shape the impact climate control has on the environment. Sometimes making a pact with the Devil might bring noticeable changes.....   

I'll remind you of what happened to the Lib Dems when they made a pact with the Tories.  

The Greens are pretty much a pressure group, you don't function as one of those by settling mid way.  Doing that would be like haggling and starting at the same price you were willing to settle on.

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43 minutes ago, nemesiz said:

If the Greens had a REALISTIC, sensible policies then yes voting for the Green party would be a viable option.    

As opposed to the Tories who like to champion economic competence whilst trying to force through the biggest economic act of self-harm and managing to find the magic money tree to bribe the repugnant DUP. This party also seems likely to make Boris Johnson the next PM.

Labour who support every position going on Brexit and whose undercurrent is a neo-Marxist agenda that wants to rip-apart the status quo. Run by a chap who would have unconditional meeting with Hamas, the IRA, Palestine, etc, but won't meet the British PM unconditionally to discuss something in the national interest.

The Lib Dems have just one main policy, which is ignoring democracy from the 2016 referendum, whilst at the same time demanding proportional representation because they respect democracy.

The Brexit party whose entire manifesto consist of one word, however, this one word will command a third of the total vote on Thursday.

This is all for an election to an organisation we have been trying to leave for the past two years and is, pretty much, completely irrelevant. 

I don't think it's just the Green Party who don't present a viable option and lack sensible policies. All of British politics is crap.

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40 minutes ago, Mr Smith said:

As opposed to the Tories who like to champion economic competence whilst trying to force through the biggest economic act of self-harm and managing to find the magic money tree to bribe the repugnant DUP. This party also seems likely to make Boris Johnson the next PM.

Labour who support every position going on Brexit and whose undercurrent is a neo-Marxist agenda that wants to rip-apart the status quo. Run by a chap who would have unconditional meeting with Hamas, the IRA, Palestine, etc, but won't meet the British PM unconditionally to discuss something in the national interest.

The Lib Dems have just one main policy, which is ignoring democracy from the 2016 referendum, whilst at the same time demanding proportional representation because they respect democracy.

The Brexit party whose entire manifesto consist of one word, however, this one word will command a third of the total vote on Thursday.

This is all for an election to an organisation we have been trying to leave for the past two years and is, pretty much, completely irrelevant. 

I don't think it's just the Green Party who don't present a viable option and lack sensible policies. All of British politics is crap.

That’s chillingly accurate. 

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5 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

As opposed to the Tories who like to champion economic competence whilst trying to force through the biggest economic act of self-harm and managing to find the magic money tree to bribe the repugnant DUP. This party also seems likely to make Boris Johnson the next PM.

Labour who support every position going on Brexit and whose undercurrent is a neo-Marxist agenda that wants to rip-apart the status quo. Run by a chap who would have unconditional meeting with Hamas, the IRA, Palestine, etc, but won't meet the British PM unconditionally to discuss something in the national interest.

The Lib Dems have just one main policy, which is ignoring democracy from the 2016 referendum, whilst at the same time demanding proportional representation because they respect democracy.

The Brexit party whose entire manifesto consist of one word, however, this one word will command a third of the total vote on Thursday.

This is all for an election to an organisation we have been trying to leave for the past two years and is, pretty much, completely irrelevant. 

I don't think it's just the Green Party who don't present a viable option and lack sensible policies. All of British politics is crap.

Easy to be dismissive but what Political Party is the lesser evil and would you support?

5 hours ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

I'll remind you of what happened to the Lib Dems when they made a pact with the Tories.  

The Greens are pretty much a pressure group, you don't function as one of those by settling mid way.  Doing that would be like haggling and starting at the same price you were willing to settle on.

No reminding at all, when I wrote the initial comment the coalition did come to mind. It is slightly different the Green Party in domestic politics they're usually pretty irrelevant, (although Caroline Lucas did vote for the No-Vote to be taken off EU negotiations).  Different with Proportional Representation and EU elections but that is dependent on making a political alliance with Germany's Green Party bloc. The question is would you accept EU interference, or enforcement of environmental policies that could impact UK economic? Presently Basic fundamental legislation already adopted doesn't negatively impact growth, but some of the EU directives is counterproductive to certain industries i.e. Fisheries policy.

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3 hours ago, nemesiz said:

Easy to be dismissive but what Political Party is the lesser evil and would you support?

No reminding at all, when I wrote the initial comment the coalition did come to mind. It is slightly different the Green Party in domestic politics they're usually pretty irrelevant, (although Caroline Lucas did vote for the No-Vote to be taken off EU negotiations).  Different with Proportional Representation and EU elections but that is dependent on making a political alliance with Germany's Green Party bloc. The question is would you accept EU interference, or enforcement of environmental policies that could impact UK economic? Presently Basic fundamental legislation already adopted doesn't negatively impact growth, but some of the EU directives is counterproductive to certain industries i.e. Fisheries policy.

At some point everyone will need to change their ways, whether that comes from EU directives or ourselves, and seeing as we are incompetent in every area...

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6 minutes ago, bestwood_red! said:

A step closer to a second referendum. What are people going to moan about when leave wins again? 

Oh give it time, I’m sure we’ll find something 

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1 hour ago, bestwood_red! said:

A step closer to a second referendum. What are people going to moan about when leave wins again? 

Either the Second Referendum question will be skewed. Asking the Question - Do you want to leave with the present Negotiated deal (Mrs May's deal) or Revoke Article 50. Unfortunately since the initial referendum how many more European's, over-Eighteen are eligible to vote? Then we have the leftist, biased National press and broadcasters. If this doesn't sway the argue, then they'll just ignore the no-vote again. Fuck it 'us' leavers are inept, imbeciles, and simpletons who don't the repercussions of our actions. MP's know better!  

 

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4 hours ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

At some point everyone will need to change their ways, whether that comes from EU directives or ourselves, and seeing as we are incompetent in every area... 

Wanna Bet?! Not when we have SJW, LGBTQ+, PC, ME, ME, ME Generation running the Asylum, well the UK and European Parliament. When the Millennium began did all common sense get chucked out the window?     

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8 minutes ago, nemesiz said:

Either the Second Referendum question will be skewed. Asking the Question - Do you want to leave with the present Negotiated deal (Mrs May's deal) or Revoke Article 50. Unfortunately since the initial referendum how many more European's, over-Eighteen are eligible to vote? Then we have the leftist, biased National press and broadcasters.  

 

Oh do behave! 40 odd years of anti-EU and anti-immigration sensationalism from the press were a major contributor to the Brexit vote. Years of stories about straight bananas, headlines such as "Up Yours Delors!" not to mention certain front pages doom mongering over Romanians, Turks and other immigrants invading the nation and sinking our beloved island have led us here. And you have the audacity to talk of a "leftist, biased national press"? If I paypal you a fiver will you promise to go to the corner shop and buy yourself a clue?

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3 minutes ago, H-Block said:

Oh do behave! 40 odd years of anti-EU and anti-immigration sensationalism from the press were a major contributor to the Brexit vote. Years of stories about straight bananas, headlines such as "Up Yours Delors!" not to mention certain front pages doom mongering over Romanians, Turks and other immigrants invading the nation and sinking our beloved island have led us here. And you have the audacity to talk of a "leftist, biased national press"? If I paypal you a fiver will you promise to go to the corner shop and buy yourself a clue?

Not 40 years  of anti-Europe, but rather satirical criticism of the EEC, EC and now the EU. Never watched  Yes (Prime) Minister? Oh I do have a clue thank you, reading the diatribe of HuffPost, The Guardian, The I, Independent, The Times, Evening Standard, Associated Press to name a few that is constantly writing and publishing articles on the internet. (Also buy the Sun & Star, top intellectual papers). Then we have BBC, Sky, CNN whose definite bias towards leftist politics and anti-conservatives in general.

Doom Mongering over invasion of Eastern-Europeans? 3.2million Europeans* This figure excludes temporary workers, and dependents. At present this clueless person lives in a Town that is building thousands of new flats and homes, so attracting Romanians, RUSSIANS, Hungarians, Lithuanians, Croats, Bulgarians, Polish, and other Eastern Europeans workers. My local Primary School in 2005 was ranked in the top 200 in the country, now 1400 with over 49% of the Children speaking English as their second language. The local Doctors Surgery went from 3,800 to cater for over 8,000 patients due to the influx of Eastern Europeans , and had to be placed into special emergency measure after failing an inspection. We've had three Murders, a prostitution ring smashed, a number of drugs farms in the last ten years, all attributed to Ex-Eastern European Citizens. My ex-local church had their brass roof tiles taken three times by Eastern European Metal Thieves in the end the diocese demolished the building as it couldn't afford the insurance. So no it affected this country!

      

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Tories for me. It's important that the Brexit Party are a pressure group but it is only the tories who can deliver in Parliament. 

A few things - 

1. Surely we are incompetent in some areas because we have effectively subcontracted those skills out to the EU for 40 years. We have forgotten how to govern ourselves in key areas. It isn't a reason to remain, it is a reason to double efforts to get those skills back.

2. Workers Rights - I actually find it quite insulting the idea that we require the EU there to oversee us. In most cases our rights far exceed the EU standards. Do people expect us to be working in Victoria era workhouses if we leave? 

Would it be so strange to think that if parties win elections then they could change business regulation as they see fit (for better or worse) with the oversight of our own courts. 

Edited by Daz

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1 hour ago, nottmred said:

Leftist national press? 😂😂 I stopped reading there.

Mental isn’t it? You’d have to be a moron of gargantuan proportions to believe that. 

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3 hours ago, Danny said:

Mental isn’t it? You’d have to be a moron of gargantuan proportions to believe that. 

 

4 hours ago, nottmred said:

Leftist national press? 😂😂 I stopped reading there.

Ah so you can't argue your point so resort to insults, defamatory comments. If you want valid examples to re-iterate and reinforce the attack on conservatism and the centre-right just examine the way the Media have reported the UKIP and Brexit Candidates on the EU campaign trail. All are said to be "FAR RIGHT".  Or the expunging of Twitter, You-Tube and other accounts.  Also have a look at the independent Journalist Tim Pool (Moderate Left) and how America has shifted to the left (and it's relevant here too). If you believe that this country hasn't got any bias towards the leftist agenda then why has prominence, protection, security of ethnic minorities, Feminism, LGBTQ rights above traditional, secular teachings? There is even a draft Government document that is publicly available to make all criticism a HATE Crime. This is all the consequence of a leftist agenda in this society.        

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