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12 minutes ago, i.k.s said:

Prove it. Seeing as your quick to dismiss a link laden blog as bollocks...let's see your link to Ford's stopping in Southampton unless they got an eu grant.

 

It isn't for me to prove, you made a claim based on a load of bollocks cause you're so Nationalistic that your brain doesn't function straight.  

Think about it for a minute, I mean really think it through, Ford want cheaper labour so they're going to move.  Their destination will depend on where they get the best deal.  It's just logical common sense.  Take Renault, make their cars in China, I'm sure if they were offered enough to land in Romania instead they'd have gone there.  

Take your bloke Dyson who fucked off too.  He got a grant but he'd have gone either way cause he's a greedy bastard, it's how it works.  

Our industry is pretty much non-existent now, if you think that's because of the EU and not because labour is cheaper overseas then frankly you're bonkers.  

That said, your favourite politician was a fan of this bollocks so I don't see what your problem is.  She wanted us to be a nation of paper pushers remember?  

The only thing that can change this is people buying British which on the whole they don't do, they delight in getting for something for fuck all 'cause it was made in China for note.  

 

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A valid argument would be the EU give grants to deter companies from leaving Europe and it would be valid to argue against paying into a pot which has little to no benefit to us.

Edited by Charlie Cheswick

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42 minutes ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

Why should I Google because you haven't got your facts straight.

As stated in the above article that you linked, the company decided to leave here before they applied for a grant.  Meaning that the grant had nothing to do with them leaving.  This is how it is, companies make more money by cutting labour costs so they move overseas.  They've been doing it for years.  If it wasn't for an EU grant they just go further overseas where the labour is even cheaper.  Once we're out of the EU they'll still do it.  

That is the point the EU is not the E.E.C. to which this country signed up. The European Union once it expanded is a completely different entity. When a company such as Twinnings can simply re-locate their manufacturing to Poland making hundreds of workers unemployed to massively to reduce overheads. As a member of EU this country had 'protection' against multi-national companies re-locating to China through paying import duties, but with enlargement this artificial barrier stopped. Now a company such as Ford, and Twinings can move legitimately to an Ex-Soviet bloc country and find cheaper labour, and pay no duties. It is creating a two-tier europe

If this country was independent we could provide grants, block or place severe limitations on companies that act against our national or local interest without falling foul of EU legislation.  i.e. Steel Industry.

Edited by nemesiz
correct e.c.c to e.e.c.

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2 minutes ago, nemesiz said:

That is the point the EU is not the E.C.C. to which this country signed up. The European Union once it expanded is a completely different entity. When a company such as Twinnings can simply re-locate their manufacturing to Poland making hundreds of workers unemployed to massively to reduce overheads. As a member of EU this country had 'protection' against multi-national companies re-locating to China through paying import duties, but with enlargement this artificial barrier stopped. Now a company such as Ford, and Twinings can move legitimately to an Ex-Soviet bloc country and find cheaper labour, and pay no duties. It is creating a two-tier europe

If this country was independent we could provide grants, block or place severe limitations on companies that act against our national or local interest without falling foul of EU legislation.  i.e. Steel Industry.

 

We could do that but the companies will still move overseas.  

I'm struggling to see how coming out of the EU will suddenly turn the tide on companies having their products made elsewhere.  It's been going on for decades now.  What am I missing?

The problem is people generally couldn't care less where something is made.  People will still buy Ford cars, they'll still buy Dysons, etc.  The only way to change things is buy us supporting our own industries but it won't happen because the overseas stuff is cheaper.  

Companies can be making millions in profits every year and it still won't be enough for them.  The problem is greedy bastards not governmental, and trust me I'm never one for letting politicians off the hook but I can't see how they're going to stop the inevitable.   

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1 hour ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

I'm struggling to see how coming out of the EU will suddenly turn the tide on companies having their products made elsewhere.  It's been going on for decades now.  What am I missing?

The problem is people generally couldn't care less where something is made.  People will still buy Ford cars, they'll still buy Dysons, etc.  The only way to change things is buy us supporting our own industries but it won't happen because the overseas stuff is cheaper.  

The countries with the cheap labour you can slap with tariffs to make sure the work comes back to GB.

You don’t want to buy a vacuum cleaner post 2017 anyway because of eu directive 5,672,446a banning vacuum cleaners over 1500watts...the new ones suck worse than merkels dance moves...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sv-0XjrBVT0

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Quote

 

We could do that but the companies will still move overseas.  

I'm struggling to see how coming out of the EU will suddenly turn the tide on companies having their products made elsewhere.  It's been going on for decades now.  What am I missing?

The problem is people generally couldn't care less where something is made.  People will still buy Ford cars, they'll still buy Dysons, etc.  The only way to change things is buy us supporting our own industries but it won't happen because the overseas stuff is cheaper.  

Companies can be making millions in profits every year and it still won't be enough for them.  The problem is greedy bastards not governmental, and trust me I'm never one for letting politicians off the hook but I can't see how they're going to stop the inevitable.   

 

Not missing anything, the decline of this country is inevitable on the National Stage without innovative thinking, difficult decisions and making sacrifices. None of the options are palatable. The population, government and MP's have two stark choices - a slow gradual decline under the EU bureaucratic infrastructure or risk our short and possible long term economic prosperity to regain independence and seek new (or re-affirm old) allegiances. The question is do you trust EU or British politicians to make the ultimate decisions?

Today EU have made two fundamental decisions that will have serious ramifications and impact on this country. The Parliament have voted FOR Article 11 and 13 (Copyright Directive) which will impact heavily on the Freedom and Creativity of the Internet and Music Industry. The other is voted FOR the scrapping of Daylight Savings Time. Tory MEP's voted against both motions. Now do you trust the EU? 

(Will reply when I have time).    

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6 hours ago, nemesiz said:

Parliament are progressively a majority of Pro-European Union supporters that only see the positive aspect of being part of the Economic and Political Bloc. Not many understand the serious flaws or negative impact since the expansion from 11 Members when it was the E.E.C. to the current 27 E.C. Fundamentally the expansion to include the ex-Soviet Bloc members was a political, not an economic decision. When the majority of regulations and rules were created  (including the Freedom of movement) for all E.E.C. countries the core members had a similar economic framework, so whilst there were difference the basic principles of trading between each partner, it bought us closer together. Unfortunately once the E.E.C. changed the premise of the community to a political one with closer ideology, legislation and closer centralised controls including the introduction of the EURO and Freedom of Movement (Schengen Area Plan 1995) this was the start of a two-tier Europe.

Worryingly the Banking Crisis in 2008 only quickened the economic division. The Banking Crisis, but also the Internet evolution has meant countries such as Portugal, Ireland, Italy, GREECE, and lesser extent Spain to be financially insolvent. Without financial bail-outs, those countries would have left the E.U. Unfortunately this has left countries such as Greece facing stiff economic sanctions and controls and causing insurmountable suffering. Whilst countries such as Germany can exploit a weaker Euro for their exports and make imports more expensive!

What's this got to do with the UK? Well the Freedom of Movement when originally devised was an excellent idea but with the two-tier system has allowed cheap labour from the ex-Soviet Bloc to flood the market. For Businesses it's a fantastic boon with young, fit, enthusiastic workers that will work for far lower wages than the indigenous population. Unfortunately this, and the minimum wage has kept wages artificially low, and help create a decline in welfare and working standards, but also discouraged companies from training local unemployed! Of course the Economists would argue that F.O.M.  has bought in £68 billion (old figures) to the economy, but they fail to include the costs and impact on education, welfare, housing, health service and other infrastructure.

The other serious economic impact from the expansion of the EU and F.O.M. is the loss of hundred of thousands of jobs as large Corporations transfer their manufacturing and factories to cheaper infrastructure, and lower wages such as Poland, Slovakia and Estonia. Whilst this heavily impact on traditional towns dependent on those companies, the double whammy occurs when the EU provides loans and grants for the re-location!

This is just the tip of the Iceberg when it comes to argument against staying in the E.U. Without going into detail closer political ties and the final ratification of the Lisbon Treaty 2019, the E.U. led by Franco-German powerhouse want to create a Federalist Europe. This would be unpalatable to the vast majority of British Citizens, as centralising of all economic, political and legislative decision would be made in Brussel/ Strasbourg. If this country hadn't voted to leave, plans that include an EU Army, abolition of Daylight Saving Time, reduction in C.A.P. payments to the British Farmers, gradual loss of VETO powers would be closer to fruition.             

I notice both you and tramizboy have mentioned the Lisbon treaty. Is that the Lisbon treaty that was ratified in 2009, which we partly opted out of, or the made up one doing the rounds on social media? 

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6 hours ago, bristol red said:

I notice both you and tramizboy have mentioned the Lisbon treaty. Is that the Lisbon treaty that was ratified in 2009, which we partly opted out of, or the made up one doing the rounds on social media? 

TRAP ALERT 😀. No the rubbish spouted about the Lisbon Treaty by the Hardliners and doing the rounds is categorically wrong. Although E.U. did attempt, but failed to introduce the European Union financial transaction tax, 0.1% levy on all shares and bonds transfers which would have impacted the City. The Lisbon treaty whilst it doesn't push to centralise and move operations such as the Clearing Service to Frankfurt, the treaty in effect could make it more difficult for our MEP's and Government to block this type of legislation or taxation.

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7 hours ago, bristol red said:

I notice both you and tramizboy have mentioned the Lisbon treaty. Is that the Lisbon treaty that was ratified in 2009, which we partly opted out of, or the made up one doing the rounds on social media? 

I don’t use social media, never really have.

eu to introduce speed limiters into all cars built after 2022 now as well...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/26/every-new-car-built-may-2022-must-capable-housing-in-built-breathalysers/

They may as well microchip us all now and be done with it.

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Cars should have been speed limited for decades. About time. Motorists simply can't be trusted to drive safely so time to put them on the naughty step. 

Looks like UK has confirmed it will align to the same standard even after brexit. 

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The EU argument is essentially one of federalism and do we want a federal Europe. At the moment it is a hybrid organisation that is neither fully federal or fully national. Personally, I don't have a problem with federalism, however, there is too little accountability in the EU. The more the EU moves beyond trade and into politics, without accountability, the less appealing it is.

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3 hours ago, tramaziboy said:

Its the utter hypocrisy of these un-elected little Hitlers as well...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1105878/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Jean-Claude-Juncker-Donald-Tusk-Theresa-May-deal-vote-delay-latest

5million signed a petition against their new internet clampdown regulations...

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/03/eus-parliament-signs-disastrous-internet-law-what-happens-next

And not a word.  5 million 'sign' a petition to revoke Article 50 and the unelected are all in favour...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/27/donald-tusk-majority-uk-stay-eu-article-50-brexit

Edited by tramaziboy

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This deal for Tory MPs to back May's deal if she steps down as PM would mean making a decision on our future relationship with the EU, a decision which will affect the life chances and prosperity of future generations, based on the interests of the Tory party and not the national interest of the UK. 

 

Besides, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If the deal is worth voting for, surely its architect is worthy of leading the nation? If the deal wasn't worth voting for would be when the PM should be asked to do the honorable thing and step down. What is being proposed is a strange perversion of the old phrase "back me or sack me" - it seems its now become "back me and sack me".

 

Whether you're Leave or Remain, it can't be right that a decision affecting the long term future of the nation could be made as a by-product of the latest Tory leadership contest.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, H-Block said:

This deal for Tory MPs to back May's deal if she steps down as PM would mean making a decision on our future relationship with the EU, a decision which will affect the life chances and prosperity of future generations, based on the interests of the Tory party and not the national interest of the UK. 

 

Besides, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If the deal is worth voting for, surely its architect is worthy of leading the nation? If the deal wasn't worth voting for would be when the PM should be asked to do the honorable thing and step down. What is being proposed is a strange perversion of the old phrase "back me or sack me" - it seems its now become "back me and sack me".

 

Whether you're Leave or Remain, it can't be right that a decision affecting the long term future of the nation could be made as a by-product of the latest Tory leadership contest.

 

 

 

At this stage she should probably just be removed.  Never mind trying to bribe people with her shit deal.

If she wasn't such a moron she'd realise that the sticking point in doing anything is the Irish border and the reluctance of the people who she teamed up with to get power so no matter how many bribes she offers they won't sign up to her deal.

I can't believe that nobody thought this bit through even before the referendum.

You can literally offer up any old shit and it will get through as long as the border is acceptable to the people over there.  

What's fucked her is having that election which she expected to win by a landslide and just squeaked in.  If she'd left things as they were everything would be sorted by now.  

 

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Politicians are once again showing what scumbags there are: May's deal is exactly the same as it was a couple of weeks ago, but because she leaves some of them will now vote for the deal? Utter disgrace.

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Not again! Once more Parliament has taken a whole day to debate and vote to tell us what it doesn't want, but won't actually endorse any option for progressing the Brexit matter either way. I've said it before but this Parliament is dysfunctional. Snap elections, please! I don't want to hear any nonsense about six week's minimum notice, there are local elections on 2nd May, polling stations are booked, staff are rota'd, use the opportunity to double up and give the country a chance to vote in a parliament capable of deciding on something.

 

I can't believe they've done this to us two week's running!

Edited by H-Block

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I don’t actually know what they’re fucking about with. The EU have already said the negotiation is closed. It’s the deal that the PM has presented to them or no deal. This bunch in Westminster are pissing about with non options,

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2 minutes ago, leather said:

I don’t actually know what they’re fucking about with. The EU have already said the negotiation is closed. It’s the deal that the PM has presented to them or no deal. This bunch in Westminster are pissing about with non options,

The problem has always been the Irish border.  May can negotiate what she wants around that and come up with a variety of options.  Her problem is, with her being a complete moron, is she hasn't ever put that to the house.  

The Irish government are the one sticking block, they've repeatedly said that they won't budge.  Likewise the DUP.  

Going with the no deal is an obvious risk to having our people randomly blown up again at the hands of shitbags.  It's something to think about and decide if that's a price worth paying.  

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out. 

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6 minutes ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

The problem has always been the Irish border.  May can negotiate what she wants around that and come up with a variety of options.  Her problem is, with her being a complete moron, is she hasn't ever put that to the house.  

The Irish government are the one sticking block, they've repeatedly said that they won't budge.  Likewise the DUP.  

Going with the no deal is an obvious risk to having our people randomly blown up again at the hands of shitbags.  It's something to think about and decide if that's a price worth paying.  

The rest of the stuff will sort itself out. 

Thing is, the Irish will reflect what the EU say. We call it the Irish border but for the purpose of Brexit it’s the EEA border. The EU’s position has always been that you can’t be outside and have the same benefits of being in the club. Our problem has been our approach. We’ve acted like someone who gives up his season ticket at a football club that we’ve had for forty years and then insisting on being able to rock up the following season and expecting the club to let us in our old seat because of who we are. They haven’t been intransigent. We have.

i don’t like the deal, but get it done. Get shot of her and hope there are some grown ups who can spend time fixing it.

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Prior to this evening I didn’t think I could think any less of Theresa May, and the Tories in general, but after her entirely self-serving proposal it’s plumbed new depths. Shitbags to a man. 

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3 minutes ago, leather said:

Thing is, the Irish will reflect what the EU say. We call it the Irish border but for the purpose of Brexit it’s the EEA border. The EU’s position has always been that you can’t be outside and have the same benefits of being in the club. Our problem has been our approach. We’ve acted like someone who gives up his season ticket at a football club that we’ve had for forty years and then insisting on being able to rock up the following season and expecting the club to let us in our old seat because of who we are. They haven’t been intransigent. We have.

i don’t like the deal, but get it done. Get shot of her and hope there are some grown ups who can spend time fixing it.

 

I don't think so, I'd say it's the other way around.  The Irish are dictating the EU's stance on this and it's intrinsically linked to the Good Friday Agreement.

The trick was always to have a phased exit which avoided us getting fucked financially but we all know that any proper deals will be done in the course of time and I don't think May has ever really stressed the idea that all of this is just for a transitional purpose.  

Either way, nothing will happen without the agreement of the Republic and the DUP's say so and if it goes ahead without that all manner of bollocks will break loose again.

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1 hour ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

Interesting to see the voting on all of the options put forward yesterday.  It appears the Tories are just blocking everything.    

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47729773

 

If that's the case then I hope the speaker blocks May from tabling her deal for a third vote. He said yesterday he wouldn't entertain it unless it passes the "substantially different" test.

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21 hours ago, H-Block said:

 

If that's the case then I hope the speaker blocks May from tabling her deal for a third vote. He said yesterday he wouldn't entertain it unless it passes the "substantially different" test.

It passed.

They're just voting on half of the deal now. 😂😂😂

You couldn't make this up. We really must be the laughing stock of world politics.

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