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1 hour ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

My problem with the referendum isn't the result but the way in which it was conducted. I said it long before we even voted, if you're going to have elections or a referendum where blatant misinformation forms the main part of campaigns and is published as if it's true then you might as well not bother. 

Democracy only works if the information a population is fed at least resembles some truth. 

Charlie, we're all well aware you'd rather live in a commune up a tree listening to Crass on yer ipod nano so your'e views aren't really relevant. 

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2 hours ago, Danny said:

I haven’t painted anyone as racist, uneducated or petty minded. The more you post on this thread the more paranoid you’re coming across. 

I didn't say YOU had, yet I'm getting giddy? 

Did you read the link?

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1 hour ago, i.k.s said:

Charlie, we're all well aware you'd rather live in a commune up a tree listening to Crass on yer ipod nano so your'e views aren't really relevant. 

Christ, there's band I didn't expect to see mentioned on here

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2 hours ago, i.k.s said:

I didn't say YOU had, yet I'm getting giddy? 

Did you read the link?

I have read the link. It may appear in the left-wing Guardian but I hardly think you can attach that label to the author of the piece, Brendan O’Neill. Do you even bother to check the links you post?

I’m not particularly arsed what he has to say and his opinion is precisely that, his. He writes of disdain of the democratic process. What’s disdainful is running a vote fuelled by misinformation and then when better information becomes available steadfastly sticking to the result as one side apparently ‘won.’  Won what exactly as there doesn’t appear to be much consensus on the leave side?

I’m not fussed what the margin was in the referendum. My issue has always been that we were asked to vote on one of two choices with fuck all idea what either option meant in any tangible terms. I voted remain not on any great ideological basis but because I thought it would be better to stick with what we know rather than take a wild punt on something we didn’t. Others disagreed. That’s fine but I’d much rather that people at least had the opportunity to inform themselves prior to voting on a topic. The shite from both sides clouded the debate massively. 

Edited by Danny
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2 hours ago, i.k.s said:

Charlie, we're all well aware you'd rather live in a commune up a tree listening to Crass on yer ipod nano so your'e views aren't really relevant. 

That's a bit rich coming from somebody who last had an original thought in 1970.

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13 minutes ago, Danny said:

I have read the link. It may appear in the left-wing Guardian but I hardly think you can attach that label to the author of the piece, Brendan O’Neill. Do you even bother to check the links you post?

I’m not particularly arsed what he has to say and his opinion is precisely that, his. He writes of disdain of the democratic process. What’s disdainful is running a vote fuelled by misinformation and then when better information becomes available steadfastly sticking to the result as one side apparently ‘won.’  Won what exactly as there doesn’t appear to be much consensus on the leave side?

I’m not fussed what the margin was in the referendum. My issue has always been that we were asked to vote on one of two choices with fuck all idea what either option meant in any tangible terms. I voted remain not on any great ideological basis but because I thought it would be better to stick with what we know rather than take a wild punt on something we didn’t. Others disagreed. That’s fine but I’d much rather that people at least had the opportunity to inform themselves prior to voting on a topic. The shite from both sides clouded the debate massively. 

I am going to say that ''I’m not particularly arsed what he has to say and his opinion is precisely that, his'' is not JUST his opinion. It's not even an opinion, it's mostly fact.

I voted leave because I hate mass immigration & everything the EU stands for. Nothing cloudy about that fella. I'm as informed as anyone else. It's easy.

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Excuse after excuse - why would you want another vote then? no one is still completely sure what impact Brexit would have? 

Edited by E R

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It is sickening how much Corbyn is playing politics with the Brexit agreement. Given the realistic options on the table, he should act in the national interest and support the government, instead of using this issue for his own ambitions.

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11 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

It is sickening how much Corbyn is playing politics with the Brexit agreement. Given the realistic options on the table, he should act in the national interest and support the government, instead of using this issue for his own ambitions.

 

Agree with you to the extent that Corbyn is playing politics by using the lack of agreement over the Brexit deal to push for a general election and agree that it's pretty nauseating. However, I disagree that he has any duty to support the government, quite the opposite. He's the leader of the opposition and as such has a duty to the nation to provide a counter view to what Mrs May is proposing. Given that May's position is a Brexit of some kind, if Corbyn were offering strong opposition  he'd be screaming from the rooftops for a second referendum, regardless of his own views and regardless of the way some Northern Labour constituencies may have voted in the referendum.

 

What we have at the moment is May saying "I'm going to lead the country out of the European Union!" and Corbyn retorting "I would also lead the country out of the European Union...........but I would do it every so slightly differently......". It makes for neither a strong opposition nor a particularly compelling debate. Even if we were to have a general election tomorrow, it seems we wouldn't have much of a choice.

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On 1/11/2019 at 5:51 PM, i.k.s said:

I voted leave because I hate mass immigration & everything the EU stands for

Fair enough about point two, but will whoever is in power after we've left really stop mass immigration? I can't see it changing. 

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On 1/15/2019 at 6:44 AM, David said:

Fair enough about point two, but will whoever is in power after we've left really stop mass immigration? I can't see it changing. 

Neither can I mate, horse, door, bolted etc. One can only hope that there is another economic downturn in the short term & a lot of the Johhny come lately's up sticks & fuck off somewhere else on the multi national globalised planet that Labour creamed themselves over, and consequently lost power because of it.

 

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This brexit bollocks is getting right on my tits - they wont support May's plan yet no one has a better alternative and now that homless looking cunt Corbyn wont even discuss it with her to try and rach a solution unless a no deal brexit is off the table

all a bunch of self serving cunts and I pray for the day that the country revolts and kicks the lot of them out

Edited by E R
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40 minutes ago, E R said:

This brexit bollocks is getting right on my tits - they wont support May's plan yet no one has a better alternative and now that homless looking cunt Corbyn wont even discuss it with her to try and rach a solution unless a no deal brexit is off the table

all a bunch of self serving cunts and I pray for the day that the country revolts and kicks the lot of them out

Now you're getting it!

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2 hours ago, E R said:

This brexit bollocks is getting right on my tits - they wont support May's plan yet no one has a better alternative and now that homless looking cunt Corbyn wont even discuss it with her to try and rach a solution unless a no deal brexit is off the table

all a bunch of self serving cunts and I pray for the day that the country revolts and kicks the lot of them out

Agreed! How can he say he wants "no deal" off the table, whilst doing nothing to negotiate a deal and thus making no deal much more likely. Corbyn is only after his general election and sod everything else.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Smith said:

Agreed! How can he say he wants "no deal" off the table, whilst doing nothing to negotiate a deal and thus making no deal much more likely. Corbyn is only after his general election and sod everything else.

 

(Sorry for the long winded comments)

Britain has an unusual political system where the Civil Service (bureaucrats) are a completely separate identity with no political allegiance or bias. This normally ensures impartiality and should provide an efficient administrative and legal framework to help run the country. In the instance of the Brexit negotiations senior civil servants under the guidance and direction of the British Government representatives (Senior Conservative MP's) negotiated the terms and conditions of the withdrawal. The crux of the matter and problem is that nearly all of the senior civil servants with experience and competency in negotiations had retired, with only Peter Lily being the last sitting MP with a relevant history. So with the creation and joining of the EEC, our countries requirements to negotiate individual trade deals ceased, this also coincided with our political decline on the world stage. This vacuum meant without true leadership subsequent Conservative, Labour and coalition governments have capitulated especially when negotiating with the EU and China. Unfortunately what we're seeing today is an extension of this failure, with an ineptitude and lacklustre display when negotiating terms for our leaving the EU under Article 50. 

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4 hours ago, nemesiz said:

Unfortunately what we're seeing today is an extension of this failure, with an ineptitude and lacklustre display when negotiating terms for our leaving the EU under Article 50. 

Pretty much, plus an utter refusal to spend any time trying to understand it once it was decided. It’s one thing not to know at the start about how to do it based on our lack of skills in this area and another thing all together to be determined to remain ignorant. 

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Yea I saw this earlier. Certainly a positive step. I walked out on my missus last year as she was abusive to me for the entire 3 years we were together. I had cause to get the police involved and, fair fucks to them, they were brilliant and told me that domestic abuse is something they’ve been instructed to make one of their main priorities. It’s a fucking dreadful situation to be in so any further help is a huge step forward. 

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11 hours ago, Danny said:

Yea I saw this earlier. Certainly a positive step. I walked out on my missus last year as she was abusive to me for the entire 3 years we were together. I had cause to get the police involved and, fair fucks to them, they were brilliant and told me that domestic abuse is something they’ve been instructed to make one of their main priorities. It’s a fucking dreadful situation to be in so any further help is a huge step forward. 

Thought you only just got married and went to Australia or something I dunno. Anyway fair play for standing your ground. I saw the piece on bbc breakfast yesterday and all they kept saying was "she can prosecute" "she has this right and that right" fuck about blokes getting agg. Years back I went to football on a Saturday and came back on Monday. ..she smashed a babies bottle over my swede the cunt. Uncalled for I'd say  

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22 minutes ago, i.k.s said:

Thought you only just got married and went to Australia or something I dunno. Anyway fair play for standing your ground. I saw the piece on bbc breakfast yesterday and all they kept saying was "she can prosecute" "she has this right and that right" fuck about blokes getting agg. Years back I went to football on a Saturday and came back on Monday. ..she smashed a babies bottle over my swede the cunt. Uncalled for I'd say  

It’d be 1 year to the day tomorrow that we flew to Australia. We were barely married for a year before I packed it in. Walking out was the best decision I’ve ever made.

Something like a third of all domestic violence victims are men. A lot of that is within gay relationships but you’re right, the way people go on it’s as if a woman can’t ever be a perpetrator of it. That’s partly what led me to being quiet about it for so long, the stigma of having to admit it was happening to me. Once I did though everyone involved has been brilliant and my only regret is that I didn’t speak up sooner. 

Edited by Danny
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5 hours ago, Danny said:

It’d be 1 year to the day tomorrow that we flew to Australia. We were barely married for a year before I packed it in. Walking out was the best decision I’ve ever made.

Something like a third of all domestic violence victims are men. A lot of that is within gay relationships but you’re right, the way people go on it’s as if a woman can’t ever be a perpetrator of it. That’s partly what led me to being quiet about it for so long, the stigma of having to admit it was happening to me. Once I did though everyone involved has been brilliant and my only regret is that I didn’t speak up sooner. 

If a bird gets in a strop & wants to act like a bloke, she gets treated like a bloke in my book. Should've give her a dig in the kidneys mush. 😋

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