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29 minutes ago, nottmred said:

Yeah we will. But what happened to this glorious Brexit we were all promised? Thought it was going to be brilliant?

Was anybody promised anything thiugh? I know people bang on about the bus but at the same time we were told a Leave  vote would instantly cause an economic crash and businesses would leave. The NHS has no more money, the economy is stronger than before the vote and no businesses have left. 

The fact is no one had a clue and everyone lied. 

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22 minutes ago, bestwood_red! said:

Was anybody promised anything thiugh? I know people bang on about the bus but at the same time we were told a Leave  vote would instantly cause an economic crash and businesses would leave. The NHS has no more money, the economy is stronger than before the vote and no businesses have left. 

The fact is no one had a clue and everyone lied. 

David Davis said that there'd be no downside to brexit, only a considerable upside.

Then you had Liam Fox and Nigel Farage saying the trade deals would be quick and easy and could be sorted out in one afternoon. 

You then, of course, have the infamous red bus.

 

And now you've got folk saying it's not the end of the world, we'll live and wanting to leave without any sort of deal (which could have been sorted out in one afternoon) .

 

Edited by nottmred

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I find it laughable that Corbyns cronies derided the Brexit plan yet have played their cards VERY close to their chests. The Labour fella on Q time last night got absolutely ruined by the panel AND the audience after saying they had a clear plan. As clear as knitting custard.

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2 hours ago, i.k.s said:

I find it laughable that Corbyns cronies derided the Brexit plan yet have played their cards VERY close to their chests. The Labour fella on Q time last night got absolutely ruined by the panel AND the audience after saying they had a clear plan. As clear as knitting custard.

I know you think Corbyn is principled but he's a fuckin wet wipe that man. Labour could be destroying the Tories with anyone half-decent. Joey Deacon would have put in a better shift

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On 11/23/2018 at 2:46 PM, i.k.s said:

I find it laughable that Corbyns cronies derided the Brexit plan yet have played their cards VERY close to their chests. The Labour fella on Q time last night got absolutely ruined by the panel AND the audience after saying they had a clear plan. As clear as knitting custard.

Labour do have a plan. It's the same one as the Tories - ask the EU for a unicorn but walk away with a donkey.

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On 11/23/2018 at 5:48 PM, Ben said:

I know you think Corbyn is principled but he's a fuckin wet wipe that man. Labour could be destroying the Tories with anyone half-decent. Joey Deacon would have put in a better shift

I think the trouble is the alternative option was a bunch of Theresa Mays in that all they've got is soundbites and no substance.  It says a lot when a 69 year old man is in his position no matter how good or bad he is.  Even then, it will take a special level of ineptitude not to turn this lot over but like you I can't see it. 

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50 minutes ago, Charlie Cheswick said:

I think the trouble is the alternative option was a bunch of Theresa Mays in that all they've got is soundbites and no substance.  It says a lot when a 69 year old man is in his position no matter how good or bad he is.  Even then, it will take a special level of ineptitude not to turn this lot over but like you I can't see it. 

It’s going to be interesting in the next election. The tories are going to rely on “go with us or you’ll get Corbyn “ Trouble is there seems to be a lot of grassroots conservatives who think they’ve been proper fucked over with May’s deal and made worse by seeing her trying to buy off rebels with peerages. I think loads of them may stay away. There’s going to be lots of halfwits looking for new jobs come the election.

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30 minutes ago, leather said:

It’s going to be interesting in the next election. The tories are going to rely on “go with us or you’ll get Corbyn “ Trouble is there seems to be a lot of grassroots conservatives who think they’ve been proper fucked over with May’s deal and made worse by seeing her trying to buy off rebels with peerages. I think loads of them may stay away. There’s going to be lots of halfwits looking for new jobs come the election.

Parliament's full of them.  I think I covered Labour's half wits in one fell swoop, if you can't rely on your own brain to deliver an answer you're probably not going to be much cop in your job.  As much as Diane Abbott is without doubt a buffoon, at least what she says belongs to her.  The Tories trouble is they're top heavy with equal divs.  Take Gove, Rees-Mogg, Leadsom, Johnson, etc.  Complete morons and they're apparently the best they've got.  But they're probably still better than the one in charge who can't string her own sentences together.  After that they've got the DUP prop up to deal with.  And people thought getting out of Europe would sort our problems.

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Can you remember when Cameron warned it would be absolute chaos if Ed Miliband was elected instead of him? 😂😂

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So let's do a poll: If you were a MP, would you vote to approve Theresa May's Brexit deal or to reject it?

 

I have to say, for all the criticism its had I think it's a good middle road, appeasing remain people with the customs arrangement, thus protecting the economy and jobs, and appeasing leave people by ending free movement, thus gaining more control over immigration. We were, after all, near enough split down the middle in the referendum, so it seems only fair both sides get a little of what they want.

 

Given the choice between the above and the economic chaos and misery that would no doubt be brought by a no deal Brexit, I have to say I'd vote to approve it. Though if there were a third choice of a second referendum, that would be my true preference.

 

 

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2 hours ago, H-Block said:

So let's do a poll: If you were a MP, would you vote to approve Theresa May's Brexit deal or to reject it?

 


Yes. It's the will of the people. A lot of polls showing people are in favour of this therefore how can you back Brexit (will of the people etc) and not this? Then again all politicians are cunts.

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2 hours ago, H-Block said:

So let's do a poll: If you were a MP, would you vote to approve Theresa May's Brexit deal or to reject it?

 

I have to say, for all the criticism its had I think it's a good middle road, appeasing remain people with the customs arrangement, thus protecting the economy and jobs, and appeasing leave people by ending free movement, thus gaining more control over immigration. We were, after all, near enough split down the middle in the referendum, so it seems only fair both sides get a little of what they want.

 

Given the choice between the above and the economic chaos and misery that would no doubt be brought by a no deal Brexit, I have to say I'd vote to approve it. Though if there were a third choice of a second referendum, that would be my true preference.

 

 

I don't think it does appease remain people or leavers - it does the opposite. We aren't remaining and it's a poor deal for leave voters.

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I don’t like it as I voted Leave mainly due to the trade side not the immigration side. Immigration never bothered me. I was/am always against an EU currency, bank, army etc 

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I’d vote against it. She can spin it all she likes but like Nottmred says it seems to be likely it will piss off both sides when it gets going. One of its worst bits is that there is no obvious escape clause that doesn’t gift the upper hand to the EU27. 

I reckon this will get ugly once we see how we’ve been done up. For me the EFTA option which she has wilfully ignored with a pack of lies was the nearest option that would have worked for most of both sides, but here we are.

Edited by leather

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7 hours ago, H-Block said:

So let's do a poll: If you were a MP, would you vote to approve Theresa May's Brexit deal or to reject it?

 

 

My MP's constituents voted to leave the EU, not hang onto it like Frank fucking Spencer hanging on the back of the bus being dragged along on roller skates.

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I'd vote for it. It satisfies neither remain or leave, but it was never going to do that. Corbyn is playing politics with his 6-tests and no fucker else has any realist alternative other than "something better". Get on with the job. Also, I think another referendum would be a terrible way to resolve matters.

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3 hours ago, bestwood_red! said:

The BofE predicting an economic crash. I wouldn’t trust them if they told me the sky was blue. 

 

Why on Earth not? They're the experts who've spent decades studying and practicing economics and have nothing to gain from misleading people. Quite the opposite, in fact, just being brave enough to announce the possibility of a crash could itself sow doubt in the economy, which is against their own interests. Sorry, chap, I usually have a lot of time for you but it's this sort of fuckwittery that inflicted Brexit on us in the first place.

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Does anyone here who voted leave have any cause for concern about that vote in the light of the last 2.5 yrs of information we did not have in 2016?

 

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The only new information we have since 2016 is about how inept and ill-prepared the conservative party is in delivering Brexit.

1. Cameron banning any scenario planning before the referendum and then quitting because he knew he’d screwed the country over.

2. May hiring a Brexit secretary to run the process but then actually having civil servants secretly run the negotiation behind his back

3. No consideration about what the future relationship would be until earlier this year (and it is still unclear). Why would anyone trigger Article 50 without having considered this?

4.Letting the EU dictate terms at all stages through the negotiation. It would always be impossible to solve the NI issue without having an indication what type of future relationship we would have.

5. There has been no clear vision presented for MPs to get around and now the MPs are being bounced into a deal because it is the only one of the table and there isn’t time to negotiate a better one

It is a sad state of affairs and May has for a long time, just let events dictate what would happen with Brexit, she has never had a handle of it. No wonder Labour’s policy is just to be as vague as possible, sit back and watch the Tories make a mess of it.

I would probably suck it up and vote for the ‘deal’. I am uncomfortable about a few aspects but I think it does allow some much needed certainty for business and people, and the sooner we get onto negotiating the future trading relationship the better (preferably not with May in charge).

In terms of the economic forecasts. I think it would a little ignorant to just assume the treasury’s forecast is worthless but it is worth noting that George Osborne set up the OBR for the reason that the treasury was too political and that financial forecasts could be manipulated. From what I’ve read the forecast released yesterday is probably too negative and is solely being used to paint the political narrative (that May’s deal is the ‘least’ damaging to the economy)

The underlying message however is probably correct and has always been correct. Brexit is about the choice of a slightly smaller economy (due to reduced immigration and increases barriers to trade) against more political control. I am comfortable with that. GDP isn’t everything.

Edited by Daz

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Eire * the UK needs to tell the EU to fuck right off with their border demands. I mean, what exactly are the EU gonna do about it?

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The more the Brexit debate has gone on, the more I dislike the EU. What they are doing with Northern Ireland seems nothing short of territorial annexation; why not insist Southern Ireland leaves their club - that would prevent a hard border too, they are talking seriously about an EU army and they are trying to sanction democratically elected member states because they disagree with their policies. The EU is getting dangerously close to becoming dictatorship of bureaucrats at the expense of the individual countries. 

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3 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

The more the Brexit debate has gone on, the more I dislike the EU. What they are doing with Northern Ireland seems nothing short of territorial annexation; why not insist Southern Ireland leaves their club - that would prevent a hard border too, they are talking seriously about an EU army and they are trying to sanction democratically elected member states because they disagree with their policies. The EU is getting dangerously close to becoming dictatorship of bureaucrats at the expense of the individual countries. 

" Getting"dangerously close? 😁

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