Feed of topics from forestfans.net http://www.forestfans.net/index.php Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:45:01 +0000 10 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17406-our-formlack-ofwhere-are-we-going/ We have decent players yes but remember those famous words "we are too good to go down" haunted us once, and twice. Will it be three times a lady? I fear so, if not this season but next we are almost certain to go if this isnt sorted...and quick.
And this is not knee jerk by the way, I am remaining calm if not numb concerning forest at the minute despite being a ticket holder. I just cant see a great future for our club while ever the ap and doughty are running the show. Bad times ]]> Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:45:01 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17406-our-formlack-ofwhere-are-we-going/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17405-pretty-decent-read-from-the-gaurdian-on-bd-and-nd/ http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/football-league-blog/2010/sep/03/nottingham-forest-billy-davies

In football, nostalgia has always been the file that smooths the rough edges off the good old days. Supporters of certain clubs will always hark back to the past, very often because they don't particularly like the present. They just prefer to cherry-pick the moments to reminisce about, getting dewy-eyed about the good times, airbrushing out the bleak ones.

Nottingham Forest are the classic example. This is a club whose followers have been going on about the past for longer than they would care to remember: the league championship, two European Cups, the 42-match unbeaten league run, the annual trips to Wembley and that once-in-a-lifetime manager, leaning out of the dugout in a green (though sometimes yellow) sweatshirt, wagging his finger, or maybe giving John Robertson a thumbs-up.

As for what came in the years BC (Before Clough), that period is seldom spoken about. All those years of obscurity, plodding along, scarcely being noticed. There were a few highs, the best being an FA Cup win in 1959, but mostly it was a story of a club treading water, seldom threatening the football establishment.

Eleven years have passed now since Forest dropped out of the Premier League and the events of this summer – or the last seven months, to be precise – can tempt the thought that the club are stuck in that same rut again. After a few years of going up and down they have discovered they can no longer even be classed as a yo-yo club. The string has snapped and not been repaired. It has been a decade of mismanagement and boardroom buffoonery, of sieving five goals at home to Yeovil (live on TV), of four-paragraph match reports in the national newspapers and the gathering sense that Forest have become the dreary operation Clough grabbed by the testicles when he took over from Allan Brown in 1975.

All of which may sound slightly harsh considering they finished third in last season's Championship, losing in the play-offs to Blackpool, and were the bookmakers' favourites for promotion only a couple of months ago. But there is another story here, one they would rather not publicise.

Were Forest in the microscope of the Premier League, we would probably all be familiar with it by now. Instead, the political infighting, the divisions, the fall-outs, have largely gone unreported. To outsiders, Forest have been depicted as a club on the up again. In reality, there is a messy, deeply unsatisfactory rift destabilising the entire operation. It is one that could yet lead to the manager, Billy Davies, leaving and if that is the case it does not matter what PR gimmickry is applied to the press statement: this would be mutual contempt rather than mutual consent.

The last transfer window has brought everything to a head, although tensions have been simmering since the start of the year, and maybe even before. Davies had targeted "four or five stellar signings" he felt could help the club win promotion. Instead, Forest did not manage to bring in one permanent deal, just as in the January window. The team have yet to win a league match and went out of the Carling Cup to Bradford City, currently fifth bottom in League Two. More Forest supporters would probably bet on a below-halfway finish now than promotion. There is talk of protests at their next match, largely directed towards the owner, Nigel Doughty, and the chief executive, Mark Arthur, although the situation is more complex than that, and the truth is that Davies must take part of the blame, too. In short, they all need their heads knocking together.

Those who are acquainted with Davies will recognise the symptoms. Davies is a talented, driven man who has got the team playing the Forest way (ie the Clough way). When he took over from Colin Calderwood two Christmases ago the club had the chilly fingers of relegation closing around their throat. But Davies somehow got a stagnant team out of the bottom three, despite often having to use youth-team players.

He described it as the best achievement of his career, even better than taking Derby County to the Premier League. Then, last season, he led Forest to the top two of the Championship in January. In their first league match of 2010 they went to the Hawthorns and took apart a West Bromwich Albion side that would eventually be promoted, winning 3-1 and playing the best football a Forest side had put together since the team of Stan Collymore, Bryan Roy and Lars Bohinen in the mid-1990s.

But Davies made the mistake of believing the club's ambitions matched his. This is a man, to quote one former colleague, who "wants to manage the world XI, and yesterday". The targets were Nicky Shorey from Aston Villa, Victor Moses of Crystal Palace, the Swansea City captain, Darren Pratley, and Gareth Bale, then in the Tottenham Hotspur reserves. But Shorey was on big money, Moses had offers from the Premier League, Swansea dug in their heels and Bale was about to re-establish himself at White Hart Lane. Doughty pulled out and Forest, without a left-back for the run-in, predictably ran out of steam, just as Davies had predicted. Over the course of several months the manager has made it clear where he believes the blame should lie.

Davies is a complex man, unpredictable and difficult to describe. He has a considerable ego, regularly referring to himself in the third person, and describing himself as the most successful manager in the history of Preston North End, the club of the Invincibles. He can be charming, good company, a man's man, generous with his time, a fine raconteur. He is also fiercely competitive and could argue about a game of Pooh sticks. But the people who have worked with him say there is a level of insecurity, even paranoia, and that he can often end up falling out with people.

A few years ago, when he was in the process of getting the Derby County job, a football reporter from the local paper rang the Lancashire Evening Telegraph to find out more about him from his time at Preston. "He's 5ft 5in, he's from Glasgow and he owns a Rottweiler called Axel," was the verdict. "You make up your own mind." Davies is a "nippy sweetie", to use the words of Alex McLeish, which is basically Glaswegian for a little man with a loud voice. But he is clever, too. And there is a political edge that should not be under-estimated.

At the worst points he has seemed on the point of spontaneous combustion. Davies is not a fan of the club's transfer acquisitions panel and has made sure everyone knows it, often with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. But Doughty assembled this committee – comprising himself, Arthur, the club's football consultant, David Pleat, the chief scout, Keith Burt, and the finance director, John Pelling – for good reason, so they could research potential signings properly, mindful of some of the wasteful buys made by previous managers. Most clubs have a similar operation – the difference is that Forest gave theirs a silly title – but Davies has issues with Pleat and Arthur and has taken just about every opportunity, using an obliging local media, to argue that the manager should be given more authority when it comes to transfer business.

The situation had deteriorated to a point at the end of last season when he was openly advertising his potential availability. There was a vacancy at Celtic and Davies, even as a Rangers man, was keen. "There is not a job that I would not consider," he said in one of many interviews. "From my point of view I certainly would not turn my back on any potential interested party if they make it official to Forest, if they agree compensation, and they do what is necessary."

His solicitor, Jim Price, said Davies would review his position in the summer. "It does not automatically mean he will be leaving Forest. But I can't lie to you. What happened during the January transfer window will be high on the agenda."

Behind the scenes at Forest those remarks have been described as "beyond belief". Information also reached the club that Davies had been put forward for the Bolton Wanderers job before Owen Coyle's appointment in January. Doughty summoned Davies to his office in Pall Mall on 20 May and made it clear he would not tolerate what he perceived to be blatant disloyalty. Davies gave his word that he was still committed and left Doughty with the impression that he would stop the moaning. The meeting was described as a success.

Then, on the eve of the new season, Davies was asked by a television reporter about James Perch's £1.2m transfer to Newcastle. He said he had not known about it until he received a telephone call from Arthur after the deal had been closed, the clear implication being that the player had been sold behind his back. The club were furious, Arthur making a rare pubic statement to explain when and how Davies had been kept in the loop. Doughty is then said to have dished out what has been described as the biggest rollicking he has given any manager during his eight years in charge.

Since then, there has been a "Mexican stand-off", to quote one observer, not helped when Davies apparently sat next to a Forest supporter on a flight from Glasgow to East Midlands airport, and the details of the alleged conversation appeared on a fans' website the following day. The content was extraordinary and, while it is still not clear whether the posting was genuine or malicious, the men in power at the City Ground took it seriously enough to investigate.

And so we arrive at the latest transfer window, ultimately clanking shut on Davies's fingers. In their defence, the club did turn down bids from Celtic for Kelvin Wilson and Blackpool for Nathan Tyson, and they finally recruited a left-back at long last, Ryan Bertrand arriving on loan from Chelsea. But Davies wanted Shorey for that position, as well as targeting Pratley, plus Peter Whittingham of Cardiff City.

One theory is that Doughty did not want to give transfer funds to Davies after everything that has happened. Alternatively, it has become a standing joke among supporters how many times the club will be accused of making "derisory" offers. We may never know the full reasons, though, because the men in power rarely speak to the fans.

Arthur, a well-spoken man with a cricket background, has become a popular target for an increasingly agitated fanbase. Doughty, whose personal worth is estimated at £128m, polarises opinion. Davies, by and large, has the sympathy of most fans, though certainly not all. His reputation should be as one of the better managers outside the Premier League, but he has already left Preston and Derby on bad terms and if he makes it a hat-trick with Forest he may just find that, in terms of baggage, he will be carrying the equivalent of a breeze block under his arm. Football-club chairmen tend to shy away from employing managers who may make life difficult for them.

The question is what happens next. There is a bad vibe and, as often happens, it seems to have trickled through to the players. The supporters are frustrated and angry. In the 1-1 draw with Norwich City last weekend (a game that could have finished 3-0 to Norwich) they took it out on Paul McKenna, booing the out-of-form captain when he was substituted. McKenna was the club's best player for six months of last season. The booing was boorish and stupid, but would never have happened had the mood not been so fractious.

In the meantime Forest are trying to leave the City Ground, the place of so many great memories, and build a shiny new stadium for the 2018 World Cup. The club have devised a nice scenario whereby they will be established in the Premier League by then and will have doubled their current crowds. Something is going to have to give.

I think on the whole ND should have known what he was getting when he got Billy. ND's management of him has been poor. He's a fantastic manager, back him, keep him happy. No need for any fall outs and your left with a motivated, talented manager. The best outside the PL]]> Fri, 03 Sep 2010 13:50:40 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17405-pretty-decent-read-from-the-gaurdian-on-bd-and-nd/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17404-liam-lawrence/
Shows how late we were still trying for players but yet again failed...]]> Fri, 03 Sep 2010 10:47:00 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17404-liam-lawrence/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17403-nep-today/
Just thought I would share for those that didn't see it or live outside of the city.]]> Thu, 02 Sep 2010 18:14:24 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17403-nep-today/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17400-forest-blog/
http://forestgrump.blog.co.uk/2010/08/31/my-considered-opinion-9286554/#comments

And he never swore once by God!]]> Wed, 01 Sep 2010 21:28:06 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17400-forest-blog/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17398-photo-shoot/ I understand there is a photo shoot at the club this afternoon...Whats it for? Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:17:26 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17398-photo-shoot/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17397-the-loan-system/
Just what options are there in the loan market. I dont mean individuals, I mean the system itself. Cardiff are attempting to do what Blackpool did last season, ie, get promotion with a team stacked with loanees.....last year the Blackpool team that spanked us had about half a dozen loanees in it, DJ Campbell, the Swansea striker/ midfielder, the Everton full back etc etc etc.

So, what can we do using this market? I know theres the 93 day rule, but when we signed Tyson wasnt it on the basis of a pre contract, ie an initial loan with a fee agreed when the window opened again in January. Can we do that and if so how many times? Is there a limit on how many loanees we can have? And if we loan now, can we extend the loan again in January or are we restricted to a total of 93 days in the season?

Interested to know what you guys know about all of this, oh, and one more I just thought of, does a "season long loan" like Bellamy have to be done within the transfer window or can that be done within the loan window too?]]> Wed, 01 Sep 2010 10:00:53 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17397-the-loan-system/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17396-anderson-injury/
I fully expect MA to come out on his return and declare "it's like a new signing".

Oh and Adebola limped out of the reserves game, so more good news on the injury front!]]> Wed, 01 Sep 2010 09:11:47 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17396-anderson-injury/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17395-takeover/
There seems to be an air of 'Irish Backers' going to take the club over by Christmas... or attempt to anyhow.

Now I know most of them are cock-ends over there, but does this rumour carry any weight anywhere else?

Im thinking of the earlier thread on here, adding in the MON situation, the lack of transfers, Billys public outing on a plane....

I always get giddy over the odd unsubstantiated rumour... mainly because im desperate for this club to move forward, BUT can anyone here give it some legs?

I ask as I know there are more credible sources on this forum, who do have the odd contact.


For clarification: I am not starting this rumour, I just want to pick the holes in it, or give it some meat so to speak.]]> Wed, 01 Sep 2010 08:49:56 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17395-takeover/ http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17394-not-happy-contact-nigel-and-tell-him/
Nigel's details (in the public domain and readily available) are:

Nigel Doughty
Direct Line - +44 020 7663 9400
nigel.doughty@doughtyhanson.com

Good luck in your future endeaveours.

Ben]]> Tue, 31 Aug 2010 22:19:25 +0000 http://www.forestfans.net/index.php?/topic/17394-not-happy-contact-nigel-and-tell-him/